Fuel/Starting Issue 1997 NAS 90 - Page 2 - Defender Source
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  #21  
Old December 23rd, 2016, 02:21 PM
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Jeff B
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minch77 View Post
How can I tell if the fuel pump is working? With the tank dropped but still connected to the lines, I plugged in the pump and cranked the ignition a few times. I put my ear to the pump and didnt hear anything. Should I? The engine still wouldn't turn over. .
You can definitely hear the electric pump in a 90.
When you turn the key to "run" position you should hear it whirring away in the tank for a few seconds.
Then if you "start" the truck the ECU will tell it to keep sending fuel forward to the motor.


There are better GEMS experts here than I, but that is the simple version...

.
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  #22  
Old December 23rd, 2016, 03:32 PM
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Got it. I didn't hear the whirring noise. Am I correct to assume that gas should be squirting out of the hose I disconnected? Its the hose that connects to the filter on the tank side --I figured That would help me detrrmine is the pump wasnpushing fuel up the line.
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  #23  
Old December 23rd, 2016, 03:53 PM
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Neil Steinhagen
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Have you checked fuel pressure at the fuel rail like Kevin suggested above? I have also borrowed a pressure gage from AutoZone to check this. It attaches to the Schrader valve on your fuel rail. Very easy to do. Crank the truck and see what your pressure is.

I've seen fuel pumps that run but are weak and produce some fuel but aren't pumping at the correct pressure.

There is a cross-reference to a pump for a cadillac IIRC that fits the LR pump housing. I think it was like $69 at Napa.

I think the pump runs until it sees a set pressure, then kicks off once at pressure. If you have cycled the key to get it up to pressure, then it may appear to not run when you take the key to position I. This is going off memory from a while ago - someone will quickly correct me if I'm wrong. Stick a screw driver in the Schrader valve on the fuel rail to bleed off the pressure - CAUTION: This will spray fuel, be sure to contain/deflect it into a container.
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  #24  
Old December 23rd, 2016, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minch77 View Post
maybe no sparks. How would I test that? Can I pull wire off plug when cranking and tell that way?
Sort of. Pull the plug & put the wire back on it, hold it close to something grounded & crank. Or check out the gadget links that I posted yesterday in the other guy's no start thread. And beware the gadgets that run between the wire boot & a spark plug still mounted in the engine: despite some of the labeling, they apparently only light up for good spark into a started/running engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by minch77 View Post
Probably a stupid question but: How could all the coils fail at once and not provide spark to at least one plug?
Not sure about your perception here. If you are thinking that you only need spark in one plug to start an engine or to keep a started engine running, I believe that you may be mistaken. Anyone?


Quote:
Originally Posted by minch77 View Post
What component tells the coil pack to start sparking?
No experience with a GEMS setup whatsoever, but I'd wager you've got one wire running from the ignition switch to the starter & a second wire running from the ignition switch to the coil pack. Anyone?
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  #25  
Old December 23rd, 2016, 07:25 PM
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You can disconnect the wiring harness and Hotwire the pump and see if it runs.
But to pin down any problems you need to separate the control circuit (ECU) from hard component failier.

That is to say, is the fuel pump not running because it's broken?
Or is the fuel pump not running because the ECU has not commanded it to run? If so, why?
Or is the fuel pump not running because the ECU has commanded it to turn on but the wiring has a problem?
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  #26  
Old December 27th, 2016, 10:07 PM
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Enoch Snyder
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On D1 I had for many years same issue was caused by one of the pins in the connector just above fuel pump corroding. Would have to scratch rust off of the single pin that was corroded and that would fix it for a while.
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  #27  
Old December 29th, 2016, 08:22 PM
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Robert
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I have had similar symptoms with a 95 D-90. This is what I found to be my problem. Maybe it will help you. These are photos of the electrical connection at the fuel pump.
Once fixed I have not had an issue since.
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  #28  
Old January 2nd, 2017, 12:54 PM
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Update

Between the holiday madness and work, I have been chipping away at this issue and have unfortunately concluded that the in-tank fuel sending motor is burnt out.

Here is how I ended up with that conclusion: I had determined that there was current from the ignition down to the pigtail connecting to the pump. I did hear the pump go on 1 out of every 5 turns (or more) of the key. Other threads mentioned that the ground for the fuel pump could be bad so I re-grounded the wires in another location and confirmed the pump and fuel gauge wires were good. Interestingly, this new, solid ground eliminated my "bouncing" fuel gauge needle that had been annoying me for the past two years. Since I had the tank dropped I confirmed that fuel was, in fact, being sent from the pump up to the rail. I disconnected the fuel lines and when the pump kicked on it shot gasoline out. The pump was working and it was pumping with a good deal of pressure. However, the pump wouldn't turn on consistently. After reconnecting the fuel lines I disconnected the gas filter and again, just to make sure there wasn't a blockage, I replaced the gas filter and confirmed that gas was properly getting pumped up the sending line and through the filter. I reconnected everything and it started up. It ran for almost 30 mins and it ran strong and smooth as usual. The fuel pressure read 30 on my newly purchased gauge while it was running. I put the tank back in and bolted everything back up.

Next day...no start. Starving for fuel again. Barely any pressure in the rail and when I hooked up the gauge whatever gas was in there dribbled out. Time for "Groundhog Day" so I dropped the tank again and re-confirmed that current was going to pump and nothing had changed since it previously had ran. While I tried the key there was no activity coming from the pump. I pulled the pump out of the tank and tested the final stretch of wires going into the in-tank motor--it was getting power every time I tuned the key. Note: This pump was purchased online and installed back in 2012 and had been working fine. My conclusion is that the fuel pump motor is dead. I tried bypassing the harness and hooking the pump up directly to the battery and didn't get any sign of life.



It kills me that I have to buy a new pump for $250. I wish I could just replace the in-tank motor [Cylinder on left in photo] but cannot find it online. Similar looking ones run about $60 but it's tough to determine fitment. A google search of the model number #25265432 on the in-tank motor linked me to similar looking models but that's it. Maybe 2017 will be a better year for the old Rover and my wallet.
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  #29  
Old January 2nd, 2017, 01:23 PM
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Jeff B
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minch77 View Post
I wish I could just replace the in-tank motor [Cylinder on left in photo] but cannot find it online.

Ummm.... is it not the same old pump that fits the Range Rover assembly?
About $70 at Autozone 2 years ago last time I got one to swap just the motor.




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  #30  
Old January 2nd, 2017, 02:16 PM
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Unit is rebuildable, using Napa Electrical Fuel Pump P74006 (or similar, as this may be superceded by the new pump # if I recall). Should be $50-60 or so. Some fuel line and hose clamps, and you're in business.
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  #31  
Old January 2nd, 2017, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanwind View Post
Unit is rebuildable, using Napa Electrical Fuel Pump P74006 (or similar, as this may be superceded by the new pump # if I recall). Should be $50-60 or so. Some fuel line and hose clamps, and you're in business.
Did this a few months ago based off Lavs encouragement. Local Napa didn't carry the part so I ordered off Rockauto. Simple other than dropping the tank.
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  #32  
Old January 2nd, 2017, 03:48 PM
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Heading to NAPA

Thanks! I will take a swing at getting the part and rebuilding it.
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