Feels like my '85 90 is trying to steer itself from the rear... - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old February 1st, 2014, 02:48 PM
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Paul Kennington
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Feels like my '85 90 is trying to steer itself from the rear...

All:

Noticeable at 25mph, gets worse when I go faster. Feels like the rear axle is steering the whole rig. Rear shocks are shot (upper covers rusted through) but I am not sure if that is the problem. I crawled under there expecting the rear trailing arms to be loose on both ends- apparently not.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Paul.
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Current fleet: '85 Ninety 3.9 V8i Auto SW, two Discovery 1's (one for my Nephew, one for my Niece),'07 BMW 335Xi.
Past Land Rovers: '96 Discovery SD, '00 Range Rover HSE, '04 Discovery SE7, '07 Range Rover HSE, '08 LR3 SE7.
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  #2  
Old February 1st, 2014, 03:02 PM
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Brett Fritzler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post
Your rear trailing arm bushings are shot.

-Jeff
That would be my guess, the frame side bushings.
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  #3  
Old February 1st, 2014, 04:04 PM
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Or maybe the nut is loose... But, it's probably the bushings.
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  #4  
Old February 1st, 2014, 04:38 PM
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All:

Bushings ordered, trying to find a set of used shocks & steering damper (I'll put new stuff on when I do the frame swap).

I'll post results after the install.

Thanks,

Paul.
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Current fleet: '85 Ninety 3.9 V8i Auto SW, two Discovery 1's (one for my Nephew, one for my Niece),'07 BMW 335Xi.
Past Land Rovers: '96 Discovery SD, '00 Range Rover HSE, '04 Discovery SE7, '07 Range Rover HSE, '08 LR3 SE7.
Past fleet: '89 Classic Mini, '83 Porsche 911 SC Coupe, '89 911 Carrera targa, '96 911 Carrera 4, '07 Toyota FJ Cruiser, several Minis.
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  #5  
Old February 11th, 2014, 01:46 PM
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Paul Kennington
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Update:

Can shot shocks cause this? Looks like they are original, and as I stated above, they are rusted through. Trailing arm bushes are in great shape. Someone has been in there & swapped the bushes for orange plastic ones. Everything is tight.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Paul.
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Current fleet: '85 Ninety 3.9 V8i Auto SW, two Discovery 1's (one for my Nephew, one for my Niece),'07 BMW 335Xi.
Past Land Rovers: '96 Discovery SD, '00 Range Rover HSE, '04 Discovery SE7, '07 Range Rover HSE, '08 LR3 SE7.
Past fleet: '89 Classic Mini, '83 Porsche 911 SC Coupe, '89 911 Carrera targa, '96 911 Carrera 4, '07 Toyota FJ Cruiser, several Minis.
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  #6  
Old February 11th, 2014, 02:02 PM
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Check front end alignment too. If the trailing arm is bent, the alignment will go "toe out" this will cause horrible wandering too. Any chance there is a Detroit type locker in the rear? This will cause rear steer too.
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  #7  
Old February 11th, 2014, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis View Post
Check front end alignment too. If the trailing arm is bent, the alignment will go "toe out" this will cause horrible wandering too. Any chance there is a Detroit type locker in the rear? This will cause rear steer too.
Dennis:

I'll get the front end alignment checked. Specs are the same as a NAS, correct?

Rear axle is the old style with drum brakes so I doubt there's a locker in there.

I might just put a Discovery 1 rear axle under it and see if anything changes.

Thanks,

Paul.
__________________
Current fleet: '85 Ninety 3.9 V8i Auto SW, two Discovery 1's (one for my Nephew, one for my Niece),'07 BMW 335Xi.
Past Land Rovers: '96 Discovery SD, '00 Range Rover HSE, '04 Discovery SE7, '07 Range Rover HSE, '08 LR3 SE7.
Past fleet: '89 Classic Mini, '83 Porsche 911 SC Coupe, '89 911 Carrera targa, '96 911 Carrera 4, '07 Toyota FJ Cruiser, several Minis.
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  #8  
Old February 11th, 2014, 02:25 PM
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Paul Kennington
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Front trailing arm nuts are tight.

A frame bushings were tight.

No play in the wheels.

I think the best remedy is a D1 axle, new shocks & a trip to the alignment shop...
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Current fleet: '85 Ninety 3.9 V8i Auto SW, two Discovery 1's (one for my Nephew, one for my Niece),'07 BMW 335Xi.
Past Land Rovers: '96 Discovery SD, '00 Range Rover HSE, '04 Discovery SE7, '07 Range Rover HSE, '08 LR3 SE7.
Past fleet: '89 Classic Mini, '83 Porsche 911 SC Coupe, '89 911 Carrera targa, '96 911 Carrera 4, '07 Toyota FJ Cruiser, several Minis.
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  #9  
Old February 11th, 2014, 02:26 PM
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I set and check my own toe, I set mine at zero. Fairly simple to do.
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  #10  
Old February 11th, 2014, 02:40 PM
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Brett Fritzler
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Any chance you have a broken halfshaft and only one wheel is seeing power??

**Not sure that would even cause what you're experiencing, just throwing darts here.
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  #11  
Old February 11th, 2014, 02:43 PM
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First... Is it rear steer? On power it will steer one way, off power the other, if the trailing arms are lose.

Describe in more detail what you are experiencing.
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  #12  
Old February 11th, 2014, 02:50 PM
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sounds like trailing arm issues to me. put the truck on jack stands, remove wheels and then tighten the trailing arm nuts at the frame. if the truck is on the ground the nut/bushing could be bound up, not allowing for any tightening. also check the trailing arm bushings at the axle. wallowing out of these could cause the trailing arm to move, causing the rear axle to become un-square.
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  #13  
Old February 11th, 2014, 02:57 PM
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Paul Kennington
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All:

Thanks for the suggestions. I know a new axle won't necessarily fix it, but if I am going to have it aligned, I'd rather do that after the axle swap.

I'll put her on axle stand and will investigate further, but I will also go for a drive & see if I can closer determine what's going on. On the freeway, it's just scary.
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Current fleet: '85 Ninety 3.9 V8i Auto SW, two Discovery 1's (one for my Nephew, one for my Niece),'07 BMW 335Xi.
Past Land Rovers: '96 Discovery SD, '00 Range Rover HSE, '04 Discovery SE7, '07 Range Rover HSE, '08 LR3 SE7.
Past fleet: '89 Classic Mini, '83 Porsche 911 SC Coupe, '89 911 Carrera targa, '96 911 Carrera 4, '07 Toyota FJ Cruiser, several Minis.
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  #14  
Old February 11th, 2014, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul K View Post
All:
Thanks for the suggestions. I know a new axle won't necessarily fix it, but if I am going to have it aligned, I'd rather do that after the axle swap.
Alignment takes a tape measure, a helper and two open-end wrenches. Take a 5 minutes to eliminate this as an option before you take it out on the highway. I had the same issue before and it's scary as hell, no need to drive if you don't have to.
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  #15  
Old February 11th, 2014, 03:00 PM
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Also on the axle stands, spin the wheels and determine if the diff is normal.

Can you explain better what is happening?
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  #16  
Old February 11th, 2014, 03:05 PM
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Paul Kennington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howski View Post
Alignment takes a tape measure, a helper and two open-end wrenches. Take a 5 minutes to eliminate this as an option before you take it out on the highway. I had the same issue before and it's scary as hell, no need to drive if you don't have to.
Is there a write-up on the procedure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
Also on the axle stands, spin the wheels and determine if the diff is normal.

Can you explain better what is happening?
How do I tell if the diff is normal?

Best way to describe it is like one of those fire trucks where there's a guy steering the rear axle independently of the front axle. Except that guy is drunk. So the faster I go, the more the rear end wanders.
__________________
Current fleet: '85 Ninety 3.9 V8i Auto SW, two Discovery 1's (one for my Nephew, one for my Niece),'07 BMW 335Xi.
Past Land Rovers: '96 Discovery SD, '00 Range Rover HSE, '04 Discovery SE7, '07 Range Rover HSE, '08 LR3 SE7.
Past fleet: '89 Classic Mini, '83 Porsche 911 SC Coupe, '89 911 Carrera targa, '96 911 Carrera 4, '07 Toyota FJ Cruiser, several Minis.
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  #17  
Old February 11th, 2014, 03:12 PM
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John B.
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The procedure for alignment is in the workshop manual, which you can download if you do not have it.

With the truck in gear, spinning one wheel will make the other spin the opposite direction.

I'm still not sure I understand your description of what is going on. Tell you what. Stand in front of the truck and sight down the front wheels on each side. You will be able to tell right away if any wheel is pointing the wrong direction.
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  #18  
Old February 11th, 2014, 03:23 PM
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Paul Kennington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
The procedure for alignment is in the workshop manual, which you can download if you do not have it.

With the truck in gear, spinning one wheel will make the other spin the opposite direction.

I'm still not sure I understand your description of what is going on. Tell you what. Stand in front of the truck and sight down the front wheels on each side. You will be able to tell right away if any wheel is pointing the wrong direction.
I'll hunt down the manual.

Diff appears to be working (opposite wheel spins in opposite direction when elevated)

Alignment looks right.

Hard part is, because I live in BFE, nobody here has even seen a Defender, much less worked on one. Nearest Rover shops are in Portland, which is a long ways.
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Current fleet: '85 Ninety 3.9 V8i Auto SW, two Discovery 1's (one for my Nephew, one for my Niece),'07 BMW 335Xi.
Past Land Rovers: '96 Discovery SD, '00 Range Rover HSE, '04 Discovery SE7, '07 Range Rover HSE, '08 LR3 SE7.
Past fleet: '89 Classic Mini, '83 Porsche 911 SC Coupe, '89 911 Carrera targa, '96 911 Carrera 4, '07 Toyota FJ Cruiser, several Minis.
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