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  #21  
Old April 18th, 2007, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Sakurada
I guess I'm thinking there's more than just shear loads that are significant. But I really don't know what the loading is. Maybe the worst thing for me is just torquing them down, and stripping or yielding the threads that way.

Here's how it currently looks:
Thats actually less contact than I thought. I would go ahead and change the bolts. You can get everything you need from www.mcmaster.com or if you have a really good Ace or similar near you they will carry what you need. If you are replacing the nuts too. Good luck.
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  #22  
Old April 18th, 2007, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Sakurada
I guess I'm thinking there's more than just shear loads that are significant. But I really don't know what the loading is. Maybe the worst thing for me is just torquing them down, and stripping or yielding the threads that way.

Here's how it currently looks:
Ryan I would be looking for longer studs.

The rule in the engeneering world is 1/2 the dia of the bolt extending past the end of the nut.

Thats what I would would use.

Mike

(hey this is post 400, and I actually had some constructive input!)
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  #23  
Old April 18th, 2007, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhansen
Ryan I would be looking for longer studs.

The rule in the engeneering world is 1/2 the dia of the bolt extending past the end of the nut.

Thats what I would would use.

Mike

(hey this is post 400, and I actually had some constructive input!)
Congrats on the 400! I hate to do this to you, but I have too. Boeing commissioned a study to find out if the 1/2 diameter past the end of the bolt rule was based in reality. What the study found was there was no difference at all in the strenth if the bolt protruded past the end of the nut or was flush with the end of the nut. Based on the study, Boeing shortened every bolt. It actually leads to 100's of pounds of weight saving.

Of course here, it doesn't really matter for weight and you should try to get at least to the end of the nut.
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  #24  
Old April 19th, 2007, 01:02 PM
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How about one ton style?
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  #25  
Old April 19th, 2007, 01:24 PM
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I don't know why a stud and nut should be looked at differrently than a bolt and nut, which sould have a min of one thread protuding from the face of the nut. Times 2 on using Disco studs. I run Wolf's on my disco and the stock studs are long enough. I do need to get some for my Defender.
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  #26  
Old April 19th, 2007, 03:17 PM
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The difference here is that the wheel nuts on a Rover are quite wide in comparison to a normal nut. Because of this, you can't use "standard" practice in the analysis as it assume standard nuts to a specific grade. There is a point at which the number of threads engaged make the strength from shear within the threads as strong as the bolt in tension.

A normal M16 fine thread nut is 13 mm wide. If you are over a diameter engaged you should be more than safe assuming the nuts are not made of chesse.

http://www.engineersedge.com/thread_...ed-std-h28.htm

It is "nice" to have the stud about flush with the nut to prevent damage or corrosion to the thread in this application.
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  #27  
Old April 19th, 2007, 05:05 PM
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Interesting... I ran that equation, and came up with 0.520" (13.2 mm) as the minimum length of engaged thread (basically the same as the standard M16x1.50 nut you mentioned). The lug nuts I have measure 0.710" (18 mm) in width so they are quite wide. I measured the actual thread engagement I'm getting, and it's 0.510". So they're probably Ok in that respect (barely). Thanks for the link. I'll probably swap out the studs at some point to gain some margin on the thread engagement and also get them flush with the nuts. But it looks like it's not as high a priority as I originally thought.
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  #28  
Old April 20th, 2007, 12:28 AM
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So you'll probably go with the caps then?
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  #29  
Old April 20th, 2007, 01:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Sakurada
Don't believe they're hubcentric. The lugs are tapered so the wheel definitely loads the studs.

Nope, no spacers. I don't have aluminum wheels to compare so I don't know where the differences come in. You can see in the pic that there's a raised area on the steel wheel right under the lug nut. My guess is that these are more pronounced on the Wolf rims than the stock steel rims. Apparently there's a Defender XD (Wolf) stud (PN FRC7577) that's suppose to be longer. But of course, not available here and very expensive.
I am assumn that those are nato's. & those wheels look hubcentric. I have had the same issue for a couple of years & no probs but it makes me think
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  #30  
Old April 20th, 2007, 03:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pendy
So you'll probably go with the caps then?
Or maybe I should get thinner nuts
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  #31  
Old April 20th, 2007, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Sakurada
Don't believe they're hubcentric. The lugs are tapered so the wheel definitely loads the studs.

Nope, no spacers. I don't have aluminum wheels to compare so I don't know where the differences come in. You can see in the pic that there's a raised area on the steel wheel right under the lug nut.
I'll compare my wolf's to a stock Series steel rim. But that raised bit is to "lock" the nut.
Early white spoke wheels didn't have the raised bit and that's why people had to continuely retighten the lug nuts on them.

It would be interesting to hear from a wheel stud engineer. Besides any shear loading I'm pretty sure there would be fairly significant tensil loading as well. Any downward or upward force on the wheel is going to be trying to slide the deformed section of the wheel (the part the nut tightens againt) under the nut and towards the stud axis. In order to do this it will have to force the nut further from the hub. Creating a tensil loading on the stud. That's my theory anyway.
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  #32  
Old April 20th, 2007, 10:40 AM
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LR Defender wheels center from the bolts, not the hub and load from the bolts. Ever try balancing a standard Defender steel wheel from the hub? Good luck.
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  #33  
Old April 20th, 2007, 02:52 PM
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The Wolf rims are made from much thicker steel than the old steel wheels, youve really got to be going some to bend one
I'll try and post a few photos of the various studs, nuts and wolf wheels.
A set of long Zeus studs worked out at around 100 for the 20 needed, seemed a lot at the time
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  #34  
Old April 21st, 2007, 08:53 AM
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The first Pic is the Zeus wheel stud, second an alloy wheel stud (axle from an '86 Classic Range Rover fitted to my 90), note the slash deniting a stud for an alloy wheel on the end of the stud, third the stanard studs for a steel wheeled 90.
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Name:	Alloy Wheel stud.JPG
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Click image for larger version

Name:	Standard Wheel stud.JPG
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ID:	9067  
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  #35  
Old April 21st, 2007, 11:03 AM
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I just compared a Wolf wheel with a Stage 1 wheel. The wolf is 7/16" from the highest part of the raised section to the back of the wheel. The Stage 1 is a 1/4"

I just remounted a set of my wolf's on my Disco and the end of the stud is the same as Mike's center picture.
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  #36  
Old April 23rd, 2007, 02:37 AM
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Mike - Thanks for the pics. The Zeus studs do look way too long (and susceptible to damage).

Tom - Does your Disco have the alloy wheel studs?

I'm wondering now if the NAS110's came with different wheel studs than the 90's. Just checked the Parts Catalog, and the 110's use PN FRC6137 and the 90's use FRC5926. So they are different in some respect. Simplest solution might be to use the Disco alloy wheel studs if they'll fit.
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  #37  
Old April 23rd, 2007, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Sakurada
Mike - Thanks for the pics. The Zeus studs do look way too long (and susceptible to damage).

Tom - Does your Disco have the alloy wheel studs?

I'm wondering now if the NAS110's came with different wheel studs than the 90's. Just checked the Parts Catalog, and the 110's use PN FRC6137 and the 90's use FRC5926. So they are different in some respect. Simplest solution might be to use the Disco alloy wheel studs if they'll fit.
They(the studs) knock out, use a soft faced mallet to avoid dammage to the stud. Not sure if they're interchangable though. the LR studs were even more expensive than a set of Zeus studs. I've never damaged the threads on the Zeus studs though, corrosion is more of a problem, I keep them well coated with waxoyl. I wouldn't get Zeus studs if I was doing the job again
I'd experiment with the alloy studs to see if they fitted
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  #38  
Old June 12th, 2007, 11:14 PM
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mcmaster?

hi buck

having this problem now, looking in mcmaster carr and don't see anything. did find a dorman stud that the autoparts store can probably get, but curious what you find in mc master carr.

rgrds
dave

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckon37s
Thats actually less contact than I thought. I would go ahead and change the bolts. You can get everything you need from www.mcmaster.com or if you have a really good Ace or similar near you they will carry what you need. If you are replacing the nuts too. Good luck.
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  #39  
Old October 1st, 2007, 09:32 AM
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Anyone know what the size and thread pitch is on the studs? I figured a 1.5 thread pitch but have not determined the diameter. I would like the threads on the tire carrier I am making to fit the stock nuts.

EDIT: Just backed into it M16 x 1.5
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  #40  
Old September 1st, 2014, 10:28 AM
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reviving a very old thread. Anyone find a domestic source for longer studs that don't cost a fortune?
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