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  #1  
Old March 2nd, 2005, 07:29 PM
scubadanster
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daniel park
1997 defender 90
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exhaust help

hey gang~~

the local shop said my muffler is totally shot.
what to do?????????

thanks,

-dan
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  #2  
Old March 2nd, 2005, 07:31 PM
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Arbi Karapetian
1995 D-90 SW #163/500
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the previous owner put a Borla stainless exhaust system on mine. Its pretty cool (the tip is shorter than the stocker, and points down), and sounds pretty mean too.

By the way, you're local...are you going to RR5?

-arbi
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  #3  
Old March 2nd, 2005, 07:49 PM
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m j
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money

guess it really depends on how much money you want to spend....

You can get a pretty sweet setup for about 200.

I've been looking around and you can have a shop custom build you an exhuast. I'm planning on going to the local shop and having them make a three inch setup. I've also been looking into mufflers. My brother recommended Dr Gas. www.drgas.com. Check out the spintech mufflers. I hear they provide awesome flow without a lot of interior reverb (like the flowmaster).

I had a flowmaster on an old cherokee and damn it was LOUD. It sounded great, but you couldn't hold a conversation while driving around. I then opted for the Dynomax. Much quieter.
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  #4  
Old March 2nd, 2005, 08:13 PM
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Matt Hurst
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mike i had my cappings galvanized here where i live-they did a bad job.had the galv stripped off and had them powder coated.i see your in boulder?i talked to a place in denver-north american galvanizing-i was thinking of sending my cappings to them.just didnt know if i wanted to waste any more money(shipping back and forth and the price of the galv) after having them galv the first time. the guy at north american said he had done some rover parts before.i think they have a min. of $150 or $130 something like that.i would give them a call.please let me know what you do-if you go with them
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  #5  
Old March 2nd, 2005, 08:26 PM
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David Shechter
97' D90 SW 2.8L diesel
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Like Mike said you can get a custom one fabed for a lot less than a Borla. If you bring the muffler guy a picture of the Borla tail pipe they can match it. The Borla pipe is nice because it tucks up under the truck, so it won't get crushed when wheeling. Since you're in CA you don't need to worry about stainless either. you should expect to pay $200-$350 with installation for a custom free flow exhaust.
Arbi, I'll be at RR5... can't wait!
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  #6  
Old March 3rd, 2005, 06:34 AM
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Nicholas Orros
1995 NAS D90 SW
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Be careful... I installed a Flowmaster 40 Stainless in mine and I freaking HATED it... Way too loud during 2nd gear acceleration, and no conversations to be held in the SW.

I tore that junk out and put in a STOCK DEFENDER muffler for $250 PLUS install and LOVE IT. Well worth the money to me. I'm into keeping the sound to a minimum, not letting everyone know I'm home.

To each his own...

Nicholas
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  #7  
Old March 3rd, 2005, 07:13 AM
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Jim Cheney
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I have a stock muffler that came off my truck when i did the Tdi conversion. I'd have to shake it to see if it is in OK nick, but you could have it for the cost of shipping. Its not rusted through the outside, so maybe its OK.
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  #8  
Old March 3rd, 2005, 01:43 PM
scubadanster
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daniel park
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wow....cool info fellas...

does that cost ($200-300) include the cats and full install???

if so, i got some homework to do! does it help with gas mileage and HP too? i know, lame question to ask re: it being a d-90. nevertheless...

and as for RR5......what is it?! please forgive.....newbie to all this......

peace out!

-dan
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  #9  
Old March 3rd, 2005, 03:04 PM
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Doug Walker
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RR5 is the Rover Rendezvous at Panamint Springs April 2nd. www.sclr.org. There are still 20 of 100 slots open. Register.

A secondary muffler behind a magnaflow or flowmaster will soften them a lot, better than a resonator. IMO, better solution than stock.

I'm running 2.5 inch Y with Dynatech cats and a 3 inch tailpipe with huge Flowmaster. Loud, but 15% power gain and 15% highway mileage gain. No joke.

Doug W.
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  #10  
Old March 3rd, 2005, 03:07 PM
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Mike
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Dan, the exhaust should not help with mileage or HP because those things are controlled by the ECU (computer). The ECU will not allow any more air to flow through the engine than it is programmed to allow. Therefore, the decreased resistance to flow that you gain with aftermarket exhaust is not utilized.
I also understand that if you increase the size of the pipes by to much (ie: 3" pipes or dual exhaust at 2.75") you lose precious back pressure and that the largest pipe that should be used on a D90 is 2.75". Do any of you guys have any opinions on this one?
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  #11  
Old March 3rd, 2005, 03:17 PM
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Doug Walker
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Mike, I have to disagree. Not only do I have personal experience with this, but I know that it takes energy to push out the exhaust. That energy has to come from someplace, and the smaller the hole the more energy it takes. Your ECU tells the engine to maintain a certain idle speed, and sends enough energy (fuel) into the system to maintain that idle no matter how small an exhaust hole all that air has to pass through. High backpressure requires power to overcome, power that could be used to move the car foward.

Doug W.
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  #12  
Old March 3rd, 2005, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdmccallum
Dan, the exhaust should not help with mileage or HP because those things are controlled by the ECU (computer). The ECU will not allow any more air to flow through the engine than it is programmed to allow.
The ECU only controls fuel and it bases the amount of fuel on air flow. It has no way to control air flow other then playing with the stepper and it only does that at idle. Air flow is regulated by how far you push the gas peddle down opening up the throttle. The ECU looks at the throttle position and the MAF in addition to the O2 sensor and uses maps pre programmed in it self and opens the injectors for longer or shorter amounts of time accordingly. If you have better air flow it should give you more power to a point at witch you reach the best pre programmed fuel map.

Just my .02

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  #13  
Old March 3rd, 2005, 03:58 PM
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Doug Walker
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ECU runs the idle speed, which is specified in the chip, and also regulates mixture by looking at MAF and O2. But who am I to argue? Use a straw for exhaust and see if your mileage goes down!

Doug W.
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  #14  
Old March 3rd, 2005, 07:09 PM
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David Shechter
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Dan,
That price doesn't include a cat. the cats cost just as much as the new pipes, $300.
Like Doug said join the www.SCLR.org (southern California Land Rover club) and sign up for the RR5. It'll be my first year there, I missed last year and have been regreting it since. Seems like a huge good ol' get together. Like Doug mentioned there are only 20 spots left (trip limited to 100 vehicles).
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  #15  
Old March 3rd, 2005, 09:13 PM
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Jason Herring
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I had my exhaust done recently, with cat, for $400. That included a Magnaflow muffler -- quieter than a Flowmaster, but flows better than stock. I'm happy with the sound -- not too loud unless you put your foot in it, then you get a subtle but pleasing growl way-down-low.

I'm in CA, so aluminized steel works fine for me.
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  #16  
Old March 4th, 2005, 03:01 PM
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Jason Herring
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One other note on stainless exhaust: while it seems like a great cure-all for the rust problem in many parts of the country, stainless steel is not the ideal material in an environment with alot of vibration. Stainless is vulnerable to metal fatigue and thus cracks relatively easily in a varying stress environment. I've been told this by a couple of speed shops who have done work on my sports car, and also I've 1st hand experience with this: the stainless Supertrap exhaust on my motorcycle has cracked a couple of times & I've had to weld it.
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  #17  
Old March 4th, 2005, 06:36 PM
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Mike
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I hope you guys are right, b/c I have an exhaust system with oversized pipes and a K&N fliter. I got my info from the guys at RPI. I don't know them from Adam so therefore, I can't say if they know their Sh__ or not. They have done quite a bit of work with Land Rovers however. Maybe they are trying to sell me something.
Oh, and about the flowmaster being too loud. I have a flowmaster and it is not all that loud. Are you guys in ST's? This would probably make it louder.
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  #18  
Old March 4th, 2005, 06:50 PM
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Doug Walker
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I'd dump the K&N. They don't clean as well as paper, are messy, and can foul the MAF with oil.

RPI is GREAT. I went through extensive email dialogue with Chris, resulting in a custom chip for the 5.0L that is awesome. I plan on doing an intake upgrade at some point, still haven't figured out solution to air filtration.

Doug W.
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  #19  
Old March 4th, 2005, 07:20 PM
scubadanster
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daniel park
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nice....


thanks for the 411...


-dan

ps> do the local muffler shops have the cats??? can you use any type?
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  #20  
Old March 5th, 2005, 11:24 AM
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Mike
'97 Defender 90 SW
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I know your feelings on K&N Doug. I think I have seen you post on this before. So which filter do you use? Have you seen the pingpong ball display by K&N? If so do you believe it? Its pretty impressive if it is real.
For those of you who haven't seen it, K&N puts a pingpong ball in a chamber and either blows air from the bottom or sucks air from the top of the chamber. Then you can interchange a K&N filter or a paper filter and the ball moves about 1/2 as much with the paper filter. Bottom line is that there is alot more resisitance to air flow with the paper filter. I guess that also means alot more dirt passes through the K&N as well.
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