Etching solution or t wash for painting galvanizing - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old September 24th, 2010, 02:07 PM
Tyler Wirken
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Etching solution or t wash for painting galvanizing

I did a search and found a bunch of stuff on painting galvanizing including info on Mordant Solution used by applying it to the freshly dipped pieces before painting that chemically etches and prepares the surface for adhesion but the company is in the UK. Anyone know of a similar solution from a company in the states? I tried a google search and did not have much luck.

What you are guys using?

Thanks

Tyler
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  #2  
Old September 24th, 2010, 02:19 PM
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There are many methods and I know ECR has a good one but look on the eastwood site for ideas
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Old September 24th, 2010, 02:31 PM
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PPG DX579 and DX520.

http://www.popularaviation.com/docs/DX533.pdf

Did this for my bulkhead and just did it on my rear crossmember too. Available at any Autobody supply place.
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  #4  
Old September 24th, 2010, 11:20 PM
Tyler Wirken
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THanks for the help. Kevin that is perfect as the paint I am using is PPG so that should be easy to get.

I really appreciate the help. By the way love the way your trucks looks redone!
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Old September 25th, 2010, 09:34 AM
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I've owned a corrosion protection application company I started in Houston in 1987 (saying that to qualify myself ) and we coat galvanize often as part of projects going offshore or to various places.

Galvanize is very tricky to prepare for sure. My thoughts:
(1) If the galvanize has been freshly dipped, it is likely to not accept a coating (very well). The galvanize needs to be weathered. This is primarirly giving time (the elements) for the zinc (galvanize) a chance to start doing it's thing (sacrifice itself to protect the steel underneath). When it does this, the outermost surface which is dense and slick, starts to gain tiny surface imperfections which are areas that the paint can stick to. Also, it allows time (the elements) to remove that top somewhat oily feel that is often a result of the galvanizing process. So, hopefully the galvanized piece has been weathered. If not, keep reading.
(2) Regardless, weathered or not, steamclean or pressure wash the galvanize. If you dont have either, take your part to a carwash and soap it up followed by a thourough wash. Repeat, repeat, repeat.
(3) Next, you must clean and re-clean the surface. Using a solvent (we use MEK, very strong stuff and should be used with extreme care; flammable, dont allow skin contact, dont get on ground, etc) of some kind. The best method is to have a clean rag in each (special rubber) gloved hand. Dip the one hand in the thinner and wipe the galvanize. Before the thinner evaporates, wipe it with the dry rag in the other hand. This method keeps you from just smearing the contaminates around on the surface and not removing it. When the "dry" rag becomes dirtier and damp, it now moves to the other hand as the thinner rag and a new clean rag becomes the "dry" one. Repeat until done.
(4) Next we brush blast ("sandblast"-although we dont use sand; hazardous and MUST NOT be breathed; can kill you) the galvanized surface. I realize that you may not be able to do this but if you can, you will be insured 100% cohesion success. This take great care however to not blast off the galvanize. The goal is to put the proper distance between the galvanize and the blast nozzle (there are many different blasting configurations, pressure, cfm, nozzle size, grit size, etc) so that the abrasive only lightly etches the surface. Sweep the blast across the surface until the surface has a dull, roughish appearance. Again, take GREAT care to not penetrate tha galvanize.
(5) At this point, we prime with a good epoxy. Ant then paint as desired.
(6) If you cant blast, then here is where you apply the wash or etching primer. (these stink at best but...). Whichever you use, follow directions carefully!! They must go on (normally) VERY thin, see-through. They are NOT a coating (per se). They are only intended to be sprayed on the surface so that the acid in the liquid will etch the surface (like the blasting does above but much less so). Normally, you should see through the "primer". If you cannot, it is to thick and will peel. (I write of the common wash primers we use in our industry).
(7) If you can, I HIGHLY recommend securing a product from Carboline called Rustbond Penetrating Seaaler. It is NOT a wash primer but a very great product that has huge "wetting" abilities. i.e. it can seep into microscopic nooks and crannies (of the galvanize) and bite to the surface like a pit bull. We routinely use this with only steps 2 and 3 above when customers dont want us to abrasive blast the surface. This product is a primer as well and you can paint directly to it.
(8) After you wash prime or apply a penetrating sealer (wetting agant), prime with a good epoxy and paint as you desire.
For my personal need, I top coat, using a product by PPG (Ameron) called Amerlock 2. Comes in many colors, bonds agressivly, forgiving of the surface condition, is an epoxy...just an all around great product.

OK, this is what we do and have huge success and NEVER experience delamination problems (cant afford a coating failure offshore of in a foreign country...).

Gotta say...I offer these as suggestions and cannot accept any liability for your success, safety or environmental failures. (American liability....)

If you are in Houston, I'd be happy to work an occasional "brother-in-law deal...we do this from time to time.

(I didnt proof-read so bare with me)

Cheers!

Eddie
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  #6  
Old September 25th, 2010, 01:37 PM
Tyler Wirken
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Wow Eddie! Thanks for taking the time to explain all of that. I really appreciate it. It was extremely helpful!

So to recap. If I am not able to blast them then I need to do steps 2,3,7 and 8 before paint correct? Or can I stop at step 7 as it is a primer like you said. Just a bit confused on your step 8 and where it fits in.

I honestly do not trust anyone to blast them and not totally remove the coating.

Thanks again for all of the help.
Tyler
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  #7  
Old September 25th, 2010, 09:07 PM
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...twas a bit confusing, sorry.

OK. If one does not want to blast (although preferable, I can understand the concern...), you should do: #2, then #3, then #7 (#7 is either a wash primer <my least favorite, or Rustbond-data sheet attached-my favorite>).
Now, the galvanize is ready to prime and paint or use something like the Amerlock 2 (data sheet attached) which if used, would be all that is needed (in lieu of an epoxy primer and top coat).

Does that make sense???
Sorry, not too good at technical writing.

Cheers Eddie
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File Type: pdf Rustbond PS SG.pdf (26.6 KB, 1512 views)
File Type: pdf 2_PDS_AI.pdf (123.2 KB, 86 views)
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  #8  
Old September 26th, 2010, 11:44 AM
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anyone ever use vinegar to "age" a new galvanized finish ?
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  #9  
Old September 26th, 2010, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Velardi View Post
anyone ever use vinegar to "age" a new galvanized finish ?
I have heard this and some of my subcontractors have done this to galvanized railings before they were painted in the field but I cannot say that I have witnessed the long term results.
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Old September 26th, 2010, 08:50 PM
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vinegar has acetic acid in it so it kinda works like wash (etching) primer as well as cleaning the surface a bit...you would be better off using "real" wash primer if you were only had the two options. I've heard some people trying it on galvanized house gutters...and then they are sad because the paint starts to peel off in a year.
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  #11  
Old September 27th, 2010, 08:21 AM
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Most times the vinegar is used to kill the bright shinny parts of the galvanizing (give it the dull been there for ever look) don't think I would paint over just vinegar treatment
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  #12  
Old April 24th, 2016, 02:26 PM
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I found this.

http://www.billchambers.org/images/a...ate_recipe.pdf
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  #13  
Old April 24th, 2016, 04:28 PM
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Kleen Strip Prep and Etch. Used on my truck and the painted galvanized parts are going strong after four years.

That said, the longer the c hains on the cross-linked paint the better. Oven-baking epoxy primer to 100 degrees C for 3 hours makes an incredibly tough finish. Powdercoat also has extreme adhesion.
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Old April 24th, 2016, 06:42 PM
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What paint did you go with afterwards?
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Old April 24th, 2016, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DailyDrivenDefende View Post
What paint did you go with afterwards?
* Southern Polyurethanes Epoxy Primer, two coats.
* Sherwin Williams Dimension Catalyzed Urethane Single-stage Basecoat with Urethane Hardener
* Southern Polyurethanes Universal Clear + Fast Reducer (I sprayed in winter. If you spray in spring or summer, go slow reducer. I would spray medium at fastest now)

Wear an isocyanate filtering full-face respirator, tyvek full-suit, keep temp above 75 degrees. Don't die.

You need heat to full cure epoxy primer. The hotter the better. If you can't bake, get the room up to 80 degrees or more.
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Old April 24th, 2016, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
* Southern Polyurethanes Epoxy Primer, two coats.
* Sherwin Williams Dimension Catalyzed Urethane Single-stage Basecoat with Urethane Hardener
* Southern Polyurethanes Universal Clear + Fast Reducer (I sprayed in winter. If you spray in spring or summer, go slow reducer. I would spray medium at fastest now)

Wear an isocyanate filtering full-face respirator, tyvek full-suit, keep temp above 75 degrees. Don't die.

You need heat to full cure epoxy primer. The hotter the better. If you can't bake, get the room up to 80 degrees or more.
This was for the body parts, not for the Chassis?

How would you go about painting the Galv. Chassis?
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  #17  
Old April 24th, 2016, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DailyDrivenDefende View Post
How would you go about painting the Galv. Chassis?
I have no idea. I didn't paint my galvanized chassis.

From a standpoint of chemistry, two-part epoxy primers and powdercoats have the highest adhesion to substrate of any coatings.

If you don't have a 375 degree oven big enough for a frame, I assume the answer is self-evident.
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Old April 24th, 2016, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
I have no idea. I didn't paint my galvanized chassis.

From a standpoint of chemistry, two-part epoxy primers and powdercoats have the highest adhesion to substrate of any coatings.

If you don't have a 375 degree oven big enough for a frame, I assume the answer is self-evident.
This guys did T wash and top coated with 2k Primer then paint.

Mordant T is not available is in US. Copper Sulfate and NaCl seems like its chemical ingredient both very cheap. But to buy it, it is about $90 a gal plus shipping from UK.



Does your Galv chassis form white chalky oxides that rubs off?

Maybe I should just paint the rear bumper? Trying to see if I can make this as factory look as it can get.
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  #19  
Old April 24th, 2016, 08:41 PM
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Copper Sulfate and Phosphoric Acid.

Mostly Phosphoric Acid.

NOT NaCL, for the love of Lucas. Do not spray brine on your chassis, PLEASE

2K primer is even worse for your health than two part epoxy. Wear the right PPE and you can handle anything. 2K urethane adhesion is lower than epoxy but not bad.

That guy in the video is using Zinc Chromate Primer, a well known aerospace primer which is a green color. This is also powerful stuff and very good at protecting against corrosion.

PLEASE STUDY THIS CAREFULLY. Light metal passivation and protection is tricky and you have to be smart.

Yes, my exposed galv does form chalky oxides.
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  #20  
Old April 24th, 2016, 11:07 PM
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I hear you. I have restored a few cars before doing mostly body work and 2 stage paint. None of these are good for your health when things go into your lung and sticks to the bronchioli. Anyone who painted cars in their garage would know, aerosoled 2k paint settles on every surface not covered and will stay there unless you sand them loose. These mists that hardens will make it into your lung and will stay there in the capillaries. I just never worked with Galv zinc stuff before.

I am thinking brush on solution at this point. Probably end up POR15 after "proper" surface prep.

They have their etching product which they do mention about using on Zinc. Anyone with experience POR15 on Galv chassis?
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