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  #1  
Old February 19th, 2014, 11:55 AM
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Engine won't catch

My 2.5 n/a diesel engine keeps turning over but won't fully start. The starter and battery are both good and its not cold enough for glow plugs (40s) but I tried with them anyways. I thought maybe it wasn't getting fuel because it was unresponsive when pressing the pedal. I took the fuel filter off, seemed fine, emptied it, put it back on, loosened it and saw there was diesel in it so I know at least the diesel is getting to the filter.

What should my next step be?
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  #2  
Old February 19th, 2014, 08:46 PM
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Follow up to say that I bled the system also (loosened the nut ontop of the fuel filter and two of the connections on the injector pump). A fair bit of air came out and then diesel but still no dice.
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Old February 19th, 2014, 09:55 PM
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are you in Maryland or Ohio ?
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Old February 19th, 2014, 10:05 PM
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Unfortunately Ohio until May when I graduate.
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Old February 19th, 2014, 10:12 PM
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Oh well was going to offer some help since these things are hard to diagnose from afar and will be in Md tomorrow.

A couple of things.

1) You emptied the fuel filter and then re-installed it dry ? That is a nono. Fill the filter with fuel when changing or re-installing. Anything else just ads air to the system and exacerbates the problem.
2) you can't tell if a diesel filter is still good by looking @ it or by dumping it out and screwing it back on. If its has been compromised by water in your fuel its toast. A diesel Land Rover owner should always have a min of 1 spare fuel filter on board, more if you don't have a down line sedimenter.
3) when bleeding the injector lines did you bleed them @ the injectors ? Was the fuel pressure @ the injectors incredible ? IE- pressure to the injectors should be close to 2000psi in order for the injector to pop open and spray fuel. Less pressure than that and nothing sprays into the cylinder and she'll never start.


If you remove the bleed screw completely and spin the engine does fuel spray everywhere or are there just some foamy bubbles ?

Fuel should spray everywhere. If you get some foamy bubbles you have an air leak somewhere or the lift pump has a tear internally.
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Old February 19th, 2014, 10:22 PM
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I used the hand primer in the engine, foamy bubbles for a bit then consistently fuel spurting out. Should I spin the engine by attempting to start it? Its also parked on a slight incline with the front end pointing up...if that means anything.

And thanks for the offer of help, I really appreciate it.
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Old February 19th, 2014, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by byrnecc View Post
I used the hand primer in the engine, foamy bubbles for a bit then consistently fuel spurting out. Should I spin the engine by attempting to start it? Its also parked on a slight incline with the front end pointing up...if that means anything.

And thanks for the offer of help, I really appreciate it.
No if you are getting spurts of fuel with the hand pump the system is good to the filter head. How long has the current filter been on ? Was it heavy ?
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Old February 19th, 2014, 10:47 PM
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Uncle Douglas said it all...

This is the exact scenario why I route the fuel from the tank through a sedimenter, then a 12V low pressure diesel pump, then the lift pump on the engine, then the fuel filter, then the IP. Then return line from IP to tank (and never back to the fuel filter).

No bleeding ever needed.
Switch on the key and it doesn't matter if the fuel filter was just changed dry, the 12V pump pushes any air through the entire feed system, through the IP, and back to the tank.
After like 20 seconds you start the engine and drive away.
If there is excessive air, you can limp the engine along with a lot of throttle until the air is gone which takes only a few minutes.

I've talked to people who have wasted hours trying to bleed trapped air out of the fuel system unsuccessfully.
Why anyone would not use the above setup is beyond me.

Ran out of fuel in the OM617 110 one time and just coasted to the diesel pump after the engine quit, so it sucked the fuel system dry.
Swiped the card, put in a few gallons, switched on the key, finished filling up the tank.
All while the 12V pump filled up the system with fuel while automagically pushing the air back down the return line.
Then started the engine and drove away with the engine running perfectly...
Can you imagine trying to manually fill the whole system up with the primer pump or cranking until there was no battery power left?
Never an issue with the trusty 12V pump on the job!
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  #9  
Old February 20th, 2014, 01:35 AM
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What Robert and Doug said. I ran my 2.5 out of fuel when i first got it. Farted around for weeks doing different things and then finally installed Robert's sedimenter and the little electric fuel pump. The thing started right up.
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Old February 20th, 2014, 01:42 AM
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Robert,
What electric fuel pump are you using?
Care to share an picture of the install?
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  #11  
Old February 20th, 2014, 02:01 AM
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Yes, please. Also, do you have any sedimenters available to ship quickly?
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Old February 20th, 2014, 05:33 AM
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Chris:
Think we are currently out of sedimenters, but should have more next week or the week after, but will check tonight as not at home to be sure. May have one...

Dave:
Will post a few pictures this weekend.

All:
The sedimenter is really there to capture water and particulate, but with the suggested order in the fuel system traps 99% of the water & particulate, so protects the 12V pump (and everything else) from clogging up from bad fuel (which could also stop a diesel from running). Best insurance policy for the money...
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #13  
Old February 20th, 2014, 07:22 AM
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RovahFarm lists a number if different sedimenters.
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A friend of mine runs a land rover / range rover specialty repair shop. Based on his experience, they are capable of stopping anywhere, anytime, at any cost.

I don't know about the brakes, only their unreliability.
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Old February 20th, 2014, 02:28 PM
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As a follow up, just picked up a batch of custom parts from the machine shop and have 6 sedimenters in stock.
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #15  
Old February 20th, 2014, 04:15 PM
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Thanks for the help everyone. When I have a chance I will put a 12v pump in but I don't have one yet and would like to get it started today.

Is the general consensus that I need to fully bleed everything? I see no air bubbles in the lines to and from the injection pump and the bleed nut on the filter just puts out diesel, no air. Is it possible there is air elsewhere in the system?
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Old February 20th, 2014, 04:19 PM
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Absolutely. You almost certainly have a fuel supply problem and there are only a few things that could cause that and air in your system is a likely culprit.
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Old February 20th, 2014, 06:14 PM
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Not all bad news then. After maybe an hour of squeezing air out, it started to catch when I left the bleed nut on the filter open...and then the battery died. I'll get a jump tomorrow hopefully.
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Old February 20th, 2014, 07:34 PM
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Is there fuel in the tank ? You mentioned its parked on a grade. I have had them act like that when the line gets fuel one moment and air the next.
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Old February 20th, 2014, 10:09 PM
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It's hard to tell because my fuel sender recently stopped working but I drove two hours highway on a full tank and then a few miles here and there so I figure I probably have over half a tank, maybe? It gets pretty good mileage and just to be sure I put in an extra 3 gallons.

I'm thinking tomorrow I just have it jumped and try starting it for a bit with a bleed nut open until it starts, seemed to almost work today. I just don't know if that's bad for the engine or anything.
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Old March 6th, 2014, 02:46 PM
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So I got it started and drove it around a few times and it drove fine, but whenever I want to start it now it needs a ton of cranks to get fuel to the engine and will often die before I can get it started. I assume this means there is a leak somewhere in the system? How can I go about finding it. Its also been parked on a slope, upwards and downwards with no difference.

Also I have an inline electric pump in the mail.
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