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Engine Ticking / Oil Light / Fault Codes

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5K views 33 replies 15 participants last post by  SPARTAN73 
#1 ·
After resolving all previously posted issues, it was time to hit the road. It road smooth and the engine was humming. After 30 mins of driving the oil light came on and a loud ticking noise started in the engine. LOUD. There has always been a barely noticeable ticking noise from the engine but nothing like this. Despite oil light, No oil loss detected. Sounded like an exhaust leak near manifold. No exhaust leak. I checked the plugs because it almost sounds like a loose plug ticking. No plug issue. The noise seems to come from the under the valve cover. When I am underneath the D-90 the noise is loudest toward the firewall. The noise matches the engine at idle and after revving the engine.

Fault codes are P0300, P1316, 1317. Of course the check engine light was on prior. (I usually reset that as needed so disregard). The P0300 code was unusual. Never had an issue with the engine EVER... and I have had the 1997 NAS since 1999! A while back I researched the earlier ticking noise and the piston rod/rockers were suggested as a possible cause.

What say the forum?

------ Follow up post added June 26th, 2015 06:43 PM ------

clip with noise https://youtu.be/vL-1Ae8U77A
 
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#7 ·
Where is that located? That sounds like it's worth a look.

Based on other folks' input on this thread I have new plugs and wires coming. The oil pump sounds the most challenging for my driveway workshop.

NOMAR: I drove it about 1.5 miles like that.
 
#4 ·
I dealt with this issue a couple of weeks ago on my '97 SW. Check engine light came on and I had the same exhaust leak sound. I also noticed a decrease in power. The code thrown was P1317 which states "ABS Rough Road Line Low Fault". I also found where is stated that it was a "Manufacturer Controlled Ignition System or Misfire". I changed the plugs and wires, cleared the code, and it seems to be fine. The exhaust leak sound is gone and the check engine light has yet to come back on.
 
#6 ·
I would suspect that it is the bypass valve sticking open and causing low oil pressure as a result sticking open. When I rebuilt my oil pump, in addition to replacing the gears, I had to sand down with an emory cloth the valve piston in order for it to move freely inside the front cover/oil pump. Something worth looking at
 
#8 ·
Where is that located? That sounds like it's worth a look. Inside the oil pan. You will need to drop it.

Based on other folks' input on this thread I have new plugs and wires coming. The oil pump sounds the most challenging for my driveway workshop.

NOMAR: I drove it about 1.5 miles like that. Ouch
 
#9 ·
Any time you get a warning of eminent failure, shut it down.
I was going 70MPH on the highway when my temp gauge headed for red. I shifted into neutral and killed the engine while still traveling highway speed.
Luckily I was coming up on my exit. I had enough speed to even coast off the service road and into my neighborhood street.
 
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#15 ·
The lifters are knocking because they are starved of oil. Not good thing espetially for 1.5 miles. Thats about 5 minutes of probably 2000-3000 rpm driving without oil! You've done some damage for sure. How bad is anyones guess untill you remive the pan etc... and start tye engine again.

Dump the oil in a clean container without spilling any especially when jt starts comming out as your going to run a magnet through the oil to check for metal particles. Often times going by tye color and size of the particles the damage can be traced to particular engine parts.

You will need a new gasket if your old one looks unusable or some silicone when putting the pan back. Remive pan and move to one side. Reach up and into the pan with your hand espetially at the bottom because thats where a large amount of metal shards if any would reside in the sludge there. You can easily feel them uf your. It wearing gloves. Put all sludge in the same oil container for later inspection.

Take pictures of the metal shards and post up for identification.

The oil pickup is easily accessible. Remive the 2 bolts holding it and take it off. Inpeact for clogs abnormality of any kind.

Post up with what you find. If you find a larte amount debris in oil / pickup you will also need to change the filter as that will also prop be contaminated with same. If you find want to be thoroug I would also cut the filter in half and look for metal shards.
 
#17 ·
I surveyed the 90 today and turned it over for a minute. In 15-20 seconds the loudness of the ticking noise subsided and went back to the original subtle ticking noise the engine has had for years. The oil light never went ON. It idled for a minute before turning it off. The noise appears like it's coming from under the valve cover where I have believed the subtle ticking noise has always emanated from.

Q: I cannot feel any vibration that corresponded to the ticking on the valve cover. Should there be a vibration?

Q: Shouldn't the light remain ON if the oil is not circulating?

I am assuming that if the pump is shot-out then it's condition should be the same when the 90 up today. It sounded normal. Could something be sticking or malfunctioning after the engine heats up? Flananuts mentioned that the bypass valve could be sticking open and causing low oil pressure.

Of course the problem is still there; I am looking to get it trailered out for service. Just curious if this changes anyone's diagnosis before I drop the pan and do some inspection work myself.

FYI: The 90 hasn't been driven that long (30 mins) in over 3 or 4 years. I fire it up and have taken it for short runs around the area but I haven't driven it continuously for a long while due to different projects and problems.

Thanks to everyone for taking time to provide input. It's much appreciated.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Others might have a different idea, but I'd remove a qt of oil and replace with ATF. Run it in your driveway or drive around but keep it close. Stop if loud ticking or light comes back on. The ATF is loaded with detergents and will help dissolve and clean out what sounds like buildup of sludge (edit - or varnish flakes per Doug). Put 15-30 minutes on it and change the oil filter (if it feels extra heavy, that is good). Top off with oil and repeat. Then change filter and oil.
 
#20 ·
Yes, what Russell said. What you are experiencing is varnish flakes in the pickup screen. I doubt its sludge. The noise you are hearing is likely an exhaust leak between the head surface and exhaust manifold. The varnish flakes will drop off the screen into the pan when you turn the engine off and will pick back up under suction as you drive the truck around.
When i experienced the same scenario I was amazed how clean the engine actually was but the issue was the truck had sat for long periods like yours and varnish deposits (hard caramel looking stuff) formed in the pan.
 
#21 ·
So Im less doom and gloom on this than others. My 4.0 was covered in gunk internally from the previous owner's "maintenance." This engine is also prone to sludging and running dirty. I changed over to high detergent Delo...and within 100 miles I had the same symptoms as you. Then, a shop Seafoamed it in an attempt to clear the gunk as it was breaking up and plugging everything. That just made it worse. So, I've been driving the last couple years and probably 30K miles on frquent oil changes, Marvel Mystery Oil, and Amsoil. I also cleaned out as mich gunk as possible from the head, pickup tube, and inspected the oil pump/area. It still ticks and the oil light comes on, but not constantly. On the advice of this forum, I'll drive it till it dies and then move on to a GM smallblock. But she refuses to die....and I've probably had a gunky engine for 80K miles. But it could be somehting as simple as an oil pickup/pump issue.
 
#22 ·
Not being able to hear it, could be a hydraulic lifter that is not pumping up. Once had one spit out the retainer spring and made quite a disturbing noise. No. Real damage tho, just didn't run well on that cylinder.
Serious things like rod or wrist pin knock gets louder with rpm.
Nothing hurts an engine more than long periods of disuse.
 
#25 ·
Oil Pan Removal

I'm using my time off this weekend to take off the oil pan and inspect the oil pick up for sludge as suggested. I removed all the bolts/nuts but that pan is stuck on there good. Any trick to breaking the seal? I don't want to drive a wedge and bend anything but not sure how else to do it. Be advised: I am doing this in a driveway with the front wheels jacked up so I don't have a lot of leverage.
 
#26 ·
Disregard...I got the oil pan off with a little more effort. Now, the screen on the oil pick up was clogged for certain. There were bits of gasket/sealer in there too. I scraped and cleaned the oil pan so there is no more sludge on its' surface. I soaked and shot compressed air through the oil pick up screen and tube until spotless. I ran a magnet in the oil that I drained and along the pan...no metal shavings to speak of.
Is there anything else I should check while I have access to the bottom of the engine? Also, should I order a gasket for this?
I noticed on Roversnorth shows there is a gasket for the oil sump [Model #: RNM110 Engine Oil Sump Gasket] ... but it's clear from this job that only black sealer was used. What do you guys recommend?

Last ones to touch the oil pan was LR Dealership many moons ago. At least it's going to be a lot less leaky when I put it all back together.
 
#29 ·
Just wanted to follow up on this thread. I refitted the defender with a clean suction screen, clean oil sump, and fresh oil. What a difference! Oil pressure light gone. All codes gone (for now). Sounds great and the ticking is barely noticeable. No more leaky oil sump means no more oil spots on driveway. I'm still cautiously optimistic that the sludge was the only reason for the oil pressure drop. Any more oil pressure issues then it's off to Roverlab to get replaced. We shall see. Thanks to all for the guidance.
 
#30 ·
Follow Up - Ticking is back

The ticking noise came back and recently went from subtle to constant and noticeable---not too loud. It seemed to be noticeable only when at idle but now it corresponds with the increase in RPMs until a certain point. From what I could tell the ticking comes from the passenger side valve cover so I took the cover off. The noise is most noticeable in the front where the #2 spark plug wire goes---could it be the rocker arms, push rods?


I took the rocker assembly off, took the push rods out, cleaned them, oiled everything, and replaced it all and it still ticks like before. From what I could see everything looked OK when I removed it---the push rods rolled straight, the arms "looked" OK, is there something about their condition that I may have overlooked?


One more thing---While the engine was idling I pulled the #2 spark plug wire off and it sounded like the ticking stopped. What do you think about that? Would that rule out the rocker arms, push rods, valve springs, etc..?




I was due to change the plugs so I changed them all and the wires too. Still ticking. I don't think it is an exhaust leak based on what I have seen.
 
#31 ·
Any fix or progress?

The ticking noise came back and recently went from subtle to constant and noticeable---not too loud. It seemed to be noticeable only when at idle but now it corresponds with the increase in RPMs until a certain point. From what I could tell the ticking comes from the passenger side valve cover so I took the cover off. The noise is most noticeable in the front where the #2 spark plug wire goes---could it be the rocker arms, push rods?


I took the rocker assembly off, took the push rods out, cleaned them, oiled everything, and replaced it all and it still ticks like before. From what I could see everything looked OK when I removed it---the push rods rolled straight, the arms "looked" OK, is there something about their condition that I may have overlooked?


One more thing---While the engine was idling I pulled the #2 spark plug wire off and it sounded like the ticking stopped. What do you think about that? Would that rule out the rocker arms, push rods, valve springs, etc..?




I was due to change the plugs so I changed them all and the wires too. Still ticking. I don't think it is an exhaust leak based on what I have seen.


Minch77,


I know this is an old thread, however I was wondering if there was any progress with your issue? Has this been resolved. Did you mange to fix it? Can you share any additional information? Thank you in advance.
 
#32 · (Edited)
Follow Up to this old thread

The ticking noise that was growing louder was ultimately the exhaust headers. They had been slowly loosening from the engine. At first inspection they appeared to be tight so I moved on to the valves as noted. When I dug my way into the bolts again I was surprised at how loose they ALL had been! The tabs (bent wahsers? I dont know the technical term for them) were bent and appeared to holding them in position--but the bolts were still loose. I have read that had they been loose then there would have been all sorts of fluids leaking but there wasnt. It was collectively loose enough to let exhaust escape and after I tightened it down the noise is only faint after a cold start. It remains that way. When I think about it, I have had my 1997 D90 since 99 and I cannot recall ever touching those bolts for any reason...including to see if they were loose! Should have done it sooner but I learned a another hard lesson.
 
#34 · (Edited)
The ticking noise that was growing louder was ultimately the exhaust headers. They had been slowly loosening from the engine. At first inspection they appeared to be tight so I moved on to the valves as noted. When I dug my way into the bolts again I was surprised at how loose they ALL had been! The tabs (bent wahsers? I dont know the technical term for them) were bent and appeared to holding them in position--but the bolts were still loose. I have read that had they been loose then there would have been all sorts of fluids leaking but there wasnt. It was collectively loose enough to let exhaust escape and after I tightened it down the noise is only faint after a cold start. It remains that way. When I think about it, I have had my 1997 D90 since 99 and I cannot recall ever touching those bolts for any reason...including to see if they were loose! Should have done it sooner but I learned a another hard lesson.

Minch77,


Thanks for the reply. I'll be sure to get up under the Defender and check that out. My confusion lays with the fact that this doesn't always happen, and it appears to happen upon warm up (operating temp), but I've experienced it on a cold start as well.
Any ideas about this anomaly?
Granted the sound appears to exist more at the position of idle and disappears under acceleration, but that could be that the sound is ultimately drowned out with all the other road noise our Defenders are known for.
Again, I'm stumped because it isn't consistent, and the only slight sense of consistency appears to be upon operating temperature/warm up.


I'd like to mention I am also a tad confused of the response you provided, you mentioned moving to the valves but moved to the bolts. Were you referring to moving on to the header (exhaust manifold) bolts because you found nothing wrong with the valves (or valve cover bolts)? If you read that there would be fluid leaking, was this in reference to fluid leaking from the exhaust manifold? I can't imagine that being possible as no liquid flows through exhaust manifolds as it is specific to exhaust fumes only. (I'm familiar with engine operation)


If your reference was to tighten the valve cover bolts, then I can understand that there may be noise and/or liquids possibly leaking from that region of the engine. Your clarification is appreciated.


On another note, are there any manufactures that make aftermarket headers for the stock Defender 4.0 V8 engines (specific to LHD versions)?
 
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