Engine Swap: which one? 200tdi, 300tdi, or something I dont even know about - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old March 25th, 2013, 06:45 PM
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Engine Swap: which one? 200tdi, 300tdi, or something I dont even know about

Looking into swapping the old 2.5td/LT77/LT230 in my '87 ROW 90 for a 300tdi/Ashcroft R380/Ashcroft 1.2 T-case. Is this a good set up or will my money be better spent elsewhere?

Thoughts, comments, suggestions are very welcome at this point
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  #2  
Old March 25th, 2013, 07:11 PM
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  #3  
Old March 25th, 2013, 07:18 PM
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Better drivability (power, torque, ease of highway use, etc). Would like to be able to use as a daily driver
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Old March 25th, 2013, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzanc View Post
Better drivability (power, torque, ease of highway use, etc). Would like to be able to use as a daily driver
Nick:
If you go with the short belhousing R380 or your LT77, you can mount the 200TDI straight to the existing frame mounts, although the stock hard rubber mounts pass a lot of vibration. For that reason I am working on a project to use the large hydraulic Mercedes mounts that do an excellent job to absorb vibration. These will be out this summer and will bolt right onto the stock frame mounts and over to the 200TDI which will eliminate the need for any cutting & welding. It will also move the left front mount away from the heat of the down pipe.

The 300TDI will require you to cut the old frame mounts off and weld new ones on. Assume you would go with the long belhousing R380. There is a jig for this available from a few different sources.

The 300TDI is slightly more powerful and does not have the head cracking issues that the 200TDI has, but the 300TDI has an idler bearing pressed into the front cover and this is both time consuming and expensive to replace when it fails.

If you encounter a lot of upgrades, you might want to consider a 1.4 T-case, otherwise the 1.22 will work fine if you don't mount XL wheels and tires.

Other than that the 2 engines are very similar so it's up to what's available and how much pocket book strain each makes on you.

Hope this helps.
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  #5  
Old March 25th, 2013, 07:57 PM
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200 would be a strait drop in, I drive mine every other day. My commute is only 4 miles though.
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Old March 25th, 2013, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzanc View Post
Better drivability (power, torque, ease of highway use, etc). Would like to be able to use as a daily driver
IMO... Get a 4.6L GEMS motor with a Stage II ZF 4HP22 and LT230 from ashcroft.

You can buy the motor for 1/4 of the price of a 200/300 and working on that engine is fairly simple.

You'll need the beefier Ashcroft Stage II 4HP22 to handle the torque increase.
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  #7  
Old March 25th, 2013, 08:13 PM
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V8???

Pedro:
I thought you were too cool to run a V8...
You'll come around to the black soot diesel side one day !!!
ie dark side.
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

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  #8  
Old March 25th, 2013, 08:25 PM
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Not to hijack, but can you post some info on the 200tdi mounts you're working on. Very interested in vibration reduction and curios how it moves away from the down pipe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
Nick:
If you go with the short belhousing R380 or your LT77, you can mount the 200TDI straight to the existing frame mounts, although the stock hard rubber mounts pass a lot of vibration. For that reason I am working on a project to use the large hydraulic Mercedes mounts that do an excellent job to absorb vibration. These will be out this summer and will bolt right onto the stock frame mounts and over to the 200TDI which will eliminate the need for any cutting & welding. It will also move the left front mount away from the heat of the down pipe.

The 300TDI will require you to cut the old frame mounts off and weld new ones on. Assume you would go with the long belhousing R380. There is a jig for this available from a few different sources.

The 300TDI is slightly more powerful and does not have the head cracking issues that the 200TDI has, but the 300TDI has an idler bearing pressed into the front cover and this is both time consuming and expensive to replace when it fails.

If you encounter a lot of upgrades, you might want to consider a 1.4 T-case, otherwise the 1.22 will work fine if you don't mount XL wheels and tires.

Other than that the 2 engines are very similar so it's up to what's available and how much pocket book strain each makes on you.

Hope this helps.
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  #9  
Old March 25th, 2013, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
Pedro:
I thought you were too cool to run a V8...
You'll come around to the black soot diesel side one day !!!
Only if it's a VO diesel.

And it has to smell like Mickey D's french fries.
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  #10  
Old March 25th, 2013, 08:42 PM
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V8's are all fun and games until the aliens show up and zap everyone with EMP, than the TDI's will be heading out of town looking like Pakastani overland trucks.

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  #11  
Old March 25th, 2013, 09:04 PM
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Diesels don't catch on fire and get ~30mpg..gas 10mpg...at 4$/gallon, that adds up.

I DD a d2 200mi a week and 20 gallons a week adds up....will be 7 gallons of diesel...so each week $80 v $28....or about 200 a month less expensive. Plus the better range is nice too.

Plus there are a lot of biodiesel options locally...

To me a diesel defender is the ultimate.

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  #12  
Old March 25th, 2013, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
V8's are all fun and games until the aliens show up and zap everyone with EMP, than the TDI's will be heading out of town looking like Pakastani overland trucks.
That's why the Series rock.
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  #13  
Old March 25th, 2013, 09:15 PM
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Search OM617 and you'll find...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomaco1 View Post
Not to hijack, but can you post some info on the 200tdi mounts you're working on. Very interested in vibration reduction and curios how it moves away from the down pipe.
Go back and search OM617 and you'll see a similar setup that shows the fluid filled Mercedes motor mount photos.
Those hard rubber Land Rover mounts just pass too many "bad vibes man" like from the late 60s (as in series IIA) or in 60s slang, man.
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  #14  
Old March 25th, 2013, 09:18 PM
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Mark, that's what I'm thinking.
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  #15  
Old March 25th, 2013, 09:20 PM
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Excellent picture!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
V8's are all fun and games until the aliens show up and zap everyone with EMP, than the TDI's will be heading out of town looking like Pakastani overland trucks.
Mark:
That's great, you're cracking me up because I love it!

The jig is still up!
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #16  
Old March 25th, 2013, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrc.swb View Post
IMO... Get a 4.6L GEMS motor with a Stage II ZF 4HP22 and LT230 from ashcroft.

You can buy the motor for 1/4 of the price of a 200/300 and working on that engine is fairly simple.

You'll need the beefier Ashcroft Stage II 4HP22 to handle the torque increase.
Huh ? Its comments like this that spawn the Pedro jokes.....

Pedro joking aside. The ability to relatively quickly recoup tdi/diesel conversion costs seems to be improving as the engines continue to get cheaper and fuel less reasonable
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  #17  
Old March 25th, 2013, 09:41 PM
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Just get a drive train out of a 14cux RRC.
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  #18  
Old March 25th, 2013, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Douglas View Post

Huh ? Its comments like this that spawn the Pedro jokes.....

Pedro joking aside. The ability to relatively quickly recoup tdi/diesel conversion costs seems to be improving as the engines continue to get cheaper and fuel less reasonable
There are other that feel the same way I do.

Diesels are nice, but overrated.
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  #19  
Old March 25th, 2013, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by rrc.swb View Post
There are other that feel the same way I do.

Diesels are nice, but overrated.
ever even had one ?
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  #20  
Old March 25th, 2013, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
V8's are all fun and games until the aliens show up and zap everyone with EMP, than the TDI's will be heading out of town looking like Pakastani overland trucks.
Don't the TDI200/300 have electronic ECU's?!?
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