Engine Swap Suggestions - Whats Next 2.8L TGV is getting scarce - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old May 23rd, 2013, 10:23 PM
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Engine Swap Suggestions - Whats Next 2.8L TGV is getting scarce

From what I understand the International 2.8L TGV is becoming scarce and rare. I do not intend to keep my 2.5L Turbo D in my Landy. Frankly it just is way too underpowered.

200TDI good idea? but not much of a change.
300TDI - excellent choice but I want to swap after the first of the year and I believe the 300TDI is not going to be 21 years old yet, until 2015.

So what are some other options - Cummins Paint Shaker BT4?

OM617 - Very Appealing but does anyone know who makes an adapter for the transmission?

Isuzu

Or is it one of those we sit and wait to see what the new Ford Transit engine will be when it comes out in the US. I am sure that can be mated to the Land Rover Driveline.

Throwing this out there for technical discussion.
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  #2  
Old May 23rd, 2013, 10:33 PM
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Jeff Payne
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Rdavisinva makes the Mercedes kit


Why the frown on Isuzu?
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  #3  
Old May 23rd, 2013, 10:40 PM
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OM617 - search a little...unless you want to keep it Rover, which seems to be low on your list.
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  #4  
Old May 23rd, 2013, 10:51 PM
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William Skidmore
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What about a V8?
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  #5  
Old May 24th, 2013, 12:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsjbrown View Post
300TDI - excellent choice but I want to swap after the first of the year and I believe the 300TDI is not going to be 21 years old yet, until 2015.
You mention an age, does Texas require an inspection ? If not, who's to care IF you keep the vehicle ?
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  #6  
Old May 24th, 2013, 07:36 AM
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Dan Prasada-Rao
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If I were in your position the 200 or 300 tdi would be at the top of my list. I think you will find even the 200 tdi to be a significant improvement.

I put a cummins 4bt in my 109. It is a LOT of work, but I got lucky and got the motor for $500, and did most of the work myself.

If I had to do it again, I would save up and go for the rover tdi motor.
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  #7  
Old May 24th, 2013, 07:54 AM
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Robert Davis
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Om617

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpayne View Post
Rdavisinva makes the Mercedes kit
We sell all the kits we build and they are not cheap, but the engines are very reasonable and extremely reliable.

The OM617 can be found in most junk yards for as little as $300 complete.
The IP is very tunable and youtube had videos with examples drifting around getting 2 and 300 HP. In it's stock form puts out about 125 HP and 185 ftlbs.

The engine runs on just about anything without damage because of the IP and indirect injection head design. So you can get free fuel if you want to spend time collecting used lubricating - hydraulic oils, ATF, and or WVO.

The OM617 is good for many many miles (some claim over a million) and has a timing chain.

The OM617 is federalized and in USA turbocharged versions were used in the 300D, 300TD, 300CD from 1982 - 1985 and the 300SD from 1977 - 1985. It was also used in the G class up until around 1994 and in military vehicles up into 2002 like the haglund. I was told by the local dealer that the engines were still available new and actually saw new ones stacked in crates at a UK military dealer years ago.

Wouldn't have built a conversion kit complete with adapter, flywheel, aluminum cast and constructed oil pan, and all the other parts if it were not such a good engine with local over the counter parts availability and repair shops in most towns.
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  #8  
Old May 24th, 2013, 09:18 AM
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  #9  
Old May 24th, 2013, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsjbrown View Post
200TDI good idea? but not much of a change.
It isn't much of a change as far as installation goes. A proper Defender 200tdi will bolt right in using all LR factory parts.

In terms of performance the 200tdi has a lot more in common with the 300tdi than the 19j.
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  #10  
Old May 24th, 2013, 09:49 AM
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If you are wanting to stay diesel... the 200TDI, 300TDI, OM617 are all in the same ballpark for power and capability to be tuned up.

If you want more power the easiest choices that have been done quite a bit are the TD5, Isuzu 4bdt1, GM 6.2/6.5TD.
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  #11  
Old May 24th, 2013, 09:50 AM
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I think a lot of people think that the 300 is way more powerful/better than a 200 because it is a larger number.
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  #12  
Old May 24th, 2013, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o2batsea View Post
I think a lot of people think that the 300 is way more powerful/better than a 200 because it is a larger number.
Wait, do you mean the 300 doesn't have a liter displacement advantage over the 200?
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  #13  
Old May 24th, 2013, 09:55 AM
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Yes, that was probably Land Rover's marketing idea at the time as well. It is easy to fool the masses. They are basically the same engine as far as all things that are related to performance.
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  #14  
Old May 24th, 2013, 10:04 AM
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The Om617 is a tempting, reasonably priced and available alternative to the 200/300.
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A friend of mine runs a land rover / range rover specialty repair shop. Based on his experience, they are capable of stopping anywhere, anytime, at any cost.

I don't know about the brakes, only their unreliability.
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  #15  
Old May 24th, 2013, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
We sell all the kits we build and they are not cheap, but the engines are very reasonable and extremely reliable.
How much? Lots of folks talk about this/your conversion but I have yet to see a complete cost listed.
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  #16  
Old May 24th, 2013, 10:16 AM
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I don't know where you are hearing about scarce on the 2.8. They are literally everywhere in Latin America. The 2.8 Ford Ranger is the Toyota Corolla South of the border. NLX told me down in Guatemala that they can find parts everywhere. That's why NLX NA just repowered to 2.8's.
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  #17  
Old May 24th, 2013, 10:27 AM
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We're looking strongly at doing M57 swaps. The engine is very strong; well proven and would seriously move a 110 even with an autobox. They're also starting to come down in cost on the 2nd hand market. I think we'll be doing at least two; three if you count the Desert Warrior which is more of a build than a swap. The M57 is also called the TD6, personally I'd rather use the TDV6 but there are a number of issues that make the TD6 easier to work with and a less expensive conversion.
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  #18  
Old May 24th, 2013, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
I don't know where you are hearing about scarce on the 2.8. They are literally everywhere in Latin America. The 2.8 Ford Ranger is the Toyota Corolla South of the border. NLX told me down in Guatemala that they can find parts everywhere. That's why NLX NA just repowered to 2.8's.
They´re everywhere around here but really hard (if not imposible) to find a Brand new one anymore. They were built here in Argentina and Brasil for Mercosur´s Ford Rangers but they don´t use them anymore since 5 or 6 years from now and Rangers are now equipped with an electronic 3.0 Maxion engine so you only find used 2.8´s from totalled pickups or so. Maxion 3.0E is really a different engine than the 300tdi/2.8 WG-TGV so it´s not compatible. Ford Transits around here use the same 2.2td4 engine as the Defender Puma but also is too hard to adapt to a 200/300tdi or similar.

What we mostly do around here is convert the stock 300tdi 2.5 engine block to 2.8 through a machine shop and use all the bits (pistons, crankshaft, connecting rods, etc, etc) from the 2.8 that we find relatively easy all over the country (Argentina).

One of my D´s has stock 2.5 300tdi but with 2.8´s IP, TGV and upgraded IC, bigger air filter, silicon hoses and some timing twaking and it does make a huge difference.

Cheers,
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  #19  
Old June 4th, 2013, 11:36 AM
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How much for OM617 kit?
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  #20  
Old June 4th, 2013, 11:45 AM
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mark kellgren
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Quote:
Originally Posted by defeyago View Post
They´re everywhere around here but really hard (if not imposible) to find a Brand new one anymore.
Cheers,
Yep, I was referring to parts availability.
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