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  #1  
Old April 5th, 2007, 12:15 PM
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Charles Galpin
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Engine rebuild/replace advise needed.

I have read a few threads on this, but since things change over time, I'm going to have to ask..

My engine started a scary sounding knocking noise after what seemed to be an overheating (without the gauge going over the middle so my e-fans didn't kick in - was low on coolent though). As soon as the engine warmed up, the noise would start - you hear it at idle, and then it quietens as soon as you rev it up a little.

I took it to a local shop who does deal with rovers, but am not 100% how much. I talked to a front desk guy who said after pulling a valve cover to look, they were looking into what options to recommend me so didn't have a quote for me yet and was also a bit vague on the details, but said I have a worn camshaft and rockers. Seemed to indicate the work needed was extensive enough to consider replacing over repairing/rebuilding. Engine has under 90K on it, but seemed to overheat easily. Other than that it ran fine.

Ok, I guess my questions are two fold.

1. What questions should I be asking the shop to determine the true extent of my problem. It's not that I don't trust them, but want to fully understand the scope of this once I talk to the mechanic.

2. Assuming it's in bad shape, what options would you recommend? I am in no position to do this myself right now (although I'd love to), so thats out. I'm obviously sensitive to price, but would like to make the move that will give me the most longevity and reliability as I can going forward. I have read that rebuilding using a 4.2 or 4.6 block is better and doesn't cost much more, etc. Also is it really that much more expensive to buy a rebuilt engine than to have mine rebuilt? I'd assume having the actually rebuild work done by a shop that does rover work all the time would be best, but I really don't know.

Any and all advise would be appreciated.

thanks
charles
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  #2  
Old April 5th, 2007, 12:51 PM
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Matt J.
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I know very little of engine mechanics, so this is just a "conceptual" thought...

my neighbor replaced his head gasket, and while at it did the camshaft... he ended up putting several hundred in parts into it over the course of a few weekends (it's a spare vehicle, no rush). He got it started and it runs very well.

If you read my posts, you'll see I get news like that and panic... then after seeing what's going on, ti seems I realize I can/will figure it out. I'm not saying do the work yourself; in my long-winded way, I'm saying wait until they very specifically tell you why you need a new engine. And then get second opinion(s).
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  #3  
Old April 5th, 2007, 01:06 PM
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Andrew Najarian
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Well, a cam, lifters and gasket set would be cheap, but with that mileage you really should replace the main bearings, and have the heads pressure tested b/c of the overheat. Its really up to you, you should be able to have it rebuilt relatively inexpensively by a good machine shop, but you still have to pay to have it pulled and replaced if you can't do that yourself. It will probably be cheaper than buying a rebuilt, but the real decision is whether it is worth a little more to upgrade to a 4.6 or a diesel etc. You have to really consider your options and what makes the most sense to you. Check with Pendy...he can probably help guide you in the right direction.
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Old April 5th, 2007, 01:18 PM
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I would do a compression/leak down test. If that came out fine than I'd pull the heads and check the head gasket. If the gaskets are fine than I'd opt to drop in a new block. I'd have to make sure it wasn't just a head gasket issue. If the issue is in the crankcase, rods or piston rings i'd definately find a new block rather than fiddle with a used one (unless I was willing to take the risk of wasting money on a bad ie porous block

Neil
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  #5  
Old April 5th, 2007, 06:11 PM
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shane cates
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I'm getting rid of my motor. Be about three weeks though
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  #6  
Old April 5th, 2007, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stmpede
Well, a cam, lifters and gasket set would be cheap, but with that mileage you really should replace the main bearings, and have the heads pressure tested b/c of the overheat.
Is that because the engine would be rebuilt and this is worth it or do they really wear that fast? I thought the 3.9L would last at least 250K without major maintenance (under "normal" condition).
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  #7  
Old April 6th, 2007, 12:01 AM
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Andrew Najarian
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Well, when doing rear mains I have noticed that around 100k these engines are usually showing the brass on the mains. When doing a rear main we just put em back together, but if you are doing a cam, lifters etc I think it is worth just doing it all and knowing you are good for another 100k. Also, if the cam is excessively worn it may be due to oil starvation from a bad pump, or PO not changing the oil etc. Either way, if some parts are overly worn from oil starvation I would be pretty skeptical of the mains too.
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  #8  
Old April 6th, 2007, 08:54 AM
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What shop was it, Charles?
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  #9  
Old April 6th, 2007, 09:36 AM
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While the Cylinder Head is pressure tested, can the valve guides be left in place?

Follow-up Post:

"If" you have the money:

International HS2.8L from M&D + ZF 4HP24 from Ashcroft
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  #10  
Old April 6th, 2007, 10:07 AM
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Charles Galpin
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High Tech Auto and truck in chantilly. Trying to not look impatient, so waiting to hear back from them still.

Thanks for the advise guys. Once I get some info on what's wrong, I'll report back.

I'd like nothing more than to go diesel, but fully expect it to be out of my budget. I'll do some research though.

charles
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  #11  
Old April 6th, 2007, 11:10 AM
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Doing a head job is pretty darn easy and inexpensive. First, though, I'd make sure to get a second opinion. Might be worth a trip up to Treasured motorcars.
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  #12  
Old April 6th, 2007, 12:55 PM
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Charles Galpin
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Yeah, I'll need to talk to Trevor about it once I get the scoop.

charles
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  #13  
Old April 6th, 2007, 02:22 PM
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Just as an FYI, I read this on the discoweb.org web site (extract from a thread where someone is asking how to get more power from a '95 Disco 3.9L engine):
==========================
At 135K, the cam will be showing some wear, there are probably a hundred sub $150 choices for a new one. A new cam, inexpensive lifters, a chain and sprockets will restore what it had when new and then some. For under $500 and a good Saturday, it's the cheapest power you will ever get out of this engine.
==========================
So make _sure_ the problem is really the worn cam, no one mention any noise.
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I have an ex MoD and an ex wife. The two no longer conflict with each other.
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  #14  
Old April 6th, 2007, 04:34 PM
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Another copy-paste from Discoweb regarding an engine problem (DII though, so... different engine?):
============
Heads rattle like dice in a cup (rocker arms, I'm told)
============
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I have an ex MoD and an ex wife. The two no longer conflict with each other.
Quote:
it is not hoarding it is selective collecting
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MonLand
1995 D90 NAS
1996 Discovery NAS
2006 LR3 NAS (hers, but comfy! :) )
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  #15  
Old April 6th, 2007, 05:36 PM
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Andrew Najarian
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Yeah, rocker arms are a common problem. The funny thing is he mentions excessive wear on the cam and lifters only a week after a tech was showing me a DII cam he removed where one lobe was almost round and one bearing journal was destroyed. The engine came in missing and he couldn't figure it out right away. Fortunately that one is still in warranty though, so he just ordered a new shortblock through rover. I have never seen excessive wear on a single lobe and journal though...must have been a blocked oil passage or something...
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  #16  
Old April 6th, 2007, 06:01 PM
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Charles Galpin
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It's funny you say that, but to my untrained ear it sounded like it was just one lobe/lifter on mine too. A blocked oil passage might explain it. Still waiting for info, but realized it's past closing time, so I guess I'll be calling on monday.

As an aside, how bad of an idea would it be do drive it like this? I'm pondering my options for taking it for second and third opinions and wonder if I can risk driving it like this.

Tony, do I hear you volunteering to come out to the 'burbs to help me work on this pig?

charles
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  #17  
Old April 7th, 2007, 08:06 AM
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Sure
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  #18  
Old April 7th, 2007, 08:15 AM
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Charles, once you find out a little more about your current motor status, I would get in touch with Will Tillery. He's putting a 4.6 into his own D-90 I believe, but you could always source another 4.0 to keep it cheaper. Since you're in VA, I would seriously consider shipping the truck to Will in Danville(probably less than $250!) and you'll get a thorough job done at better rates than NoVa! Just something to consider...
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  #19  
Old April 7th, 2007, 09:05 AM
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Charles Galpin
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Thanks Tony.

JB, I'll certainly look into that, thanks.

Still don't have the details but I swung by the shop yesterday evening to peek at it and caught the front desk guy. I got the same vagueness from him, but did find out who had been looking at it and will ask for him monday morning. They clearly wont be a good option for the work - he mentioned getting a rebuilt motor from AB for $9k, or 33 hours of labor (at $100/hr) for a rebuild (not sure exactly what though and then of course you'd have all the parts ad machine shop on top of that I assume).

I'll buy an old jeep for the summer and fix it at my own pace before paying those kind of rates I think

charles
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  #20  
Old April 7th, 2007, 10:46 AM
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Agreed on sourcing a motor from Will, but I'd put some work into the existing one first. It just seems odd that at that mileage a motor that's been maintained and didn't suffer multiple or catastrophic overheating would go south. I sure as hell wouldn't spend $12K at a shop that may or may not know what they're doing, though. Loic may well be on to something with a bad rocker assembly to start. If it were me, I'd get a second opinion from Trevor or maybe that airpark rover place in Gaithursburg and see what thier thoughts are. From there we can start turning a wrench or two.
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