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  #81  
Old April 12th, 2007, 12:57 PM
MonLand
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Loic Fabro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LRover
4.0 - 4.6 blocks are the same.
Are you sure about this? I was told that the GEMS and BOSH setup was using a different block. The crank position sensor mounting hole is different for each setup?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgalpin
I need to make sure I am getting a 4.2 block
The advantage of the 4.0 over the 3.9 was that it was a stronger engine (cross bolted, someone said something like that here). But what's the advantage of going from the 3.9 to the 4.2 block?
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  #82  
Old April 12th, 2007, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonLand
Are you sure about this? I was told that the GEMS and BOSH setup was using a different block. The crank position sensor mounting hole is different for each setup?
There are flywheel sensor differences, but they can be changed out so that the a Bosche engine will work in a GEMS. We install Bosche long blocks in both GEMS and 14CUX cars all the time.
If you just think about the engine as a long block (use you existing timing cover, intake, etc), there is nothing that can not be easily overcome to install say a 1999 4.6 into a 1994 D90 or a 1996 GEMS 4.0 into a 1989 Range Rover, etc etc.
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  #83  
Old April 13th, 2007, 09:09 AM
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jim pendleton
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Dude I see some of your questions here. And I think we chatted on the phone.

My feelings on this are that you need to find someone to build this for you complete and just do the R&R yourself. I offered to help but there are may people in the community closer that I'm sure could help out. Your asking all the right questions but I see you going back and forth on the whole picture. It could save you a lot of grief and prolly some $ if you get someone with experience involved in the assembly of the engine. D&D has good points going for it. But the car world is different then our trucks. And they are not infallible. Nor am I.

JP
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  #84  
Old April 13th, 2007, 09:35 AM
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Charles, if your truck is undriveable you could still have Will Tillery send a rollback for it. I think he got one down from NoVa for under $200. He knows the motors very well and drives a D-90 himself!
If this project is out of your scope, give him a call.
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  #85  
Old April 16th, 2007, 11:42 AM
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Dunno what to say about the wavering - I tend to do that when I'm faced with spending 60-80% of what the truck cost me just to repair it

I took my good friend Loic's advise and put it back together first. At a minimum it will allow me to get the tests done that should have been done before they tore it apart (compression, leakdown, maybe oil pressure?), and maybe allow me to have less downtime if/when I do a swap.

Anyway, I put it back together Saturday and took some video (mainly to get the audio) showing how it doesn't knock when cold, but starts knocking when it warms up. The knock isn't as loud as before, but is perhaps a little more regular and doesn't go away on acceleration all the time like it used to. I haven't driven it with the knock yet, but I just drove it a few miles this morning and no knocking (the ambient temp is pretty low today and I yanked the thermostat, so it never went to the midpoint on the gauge which is what I used to consider normal operating temp).

Anyway, the video is here if you are interested in hearing about it.

http://lhsw.com/gallery/engineRebuild

I am not sure why it happens when hot. I removed the thermostat (couldn't find a replacement locally) to make sure that water was flowing through the heads, but it still knocks. I did reproduce the problem I had the day the knock started, which was the reservoir cap started leaking. I replaced the cap and haven't had it happen again, but not 100% sure that was a problem, or a symptom of another issue.

And still not sure how bad it would be to drive it with this knock. Seems I have little to lose doing so.

charles
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  #86  
Old April 16th, 2007, 01:05 PM
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sounds like valvetrain lifter or rocker
use a long screw driver as a stethescope to isolate where the noise is at its loudest
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  #87  
Old April 16th, 2007, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowtracer
sounds like valvetrain lifter or rocker
use a long screw driver as a stethescope to isolate where the noise is at its loudest
I agree, sounds like a lifter.
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  #88  
Old April 16th, 2007, 01:28 PM
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Charles Galpin
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A lifter as opposed to a worn lobe on the cam? Any way to prove one way or the other? Can the lifters be replaced individually or should the set be replaced?

If it is a lifter, I assume giving something like sea foam a shot might help free it up? I am running some "mystery marvel oil" in it right now since I had to drain the oil (had lots of antifreeze dropped in when they dismantled).

Regarding the rockers, since I didn't take it apart I don't know if I put them back on the same side they came from, but I did clean them off a bit with gasoline (without dissasembly) and then lubricated and saw no obvious problems with them.

thanks
charles
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  #89  
Old April 16th, 2007, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgalpin
A lifter as opposed to a worn lobe on the cam? Any way to prove one way or the other? Can the lifters be replaced individually or should the set be replaced?

If it is a lifter, I assume giving something like sea foam a shot might help free it up? I am running some "mystery marvel oil" in it right now since I had to drain the oil (had lots of antifreeze dropped in when they dismantled).

Regarding the rockers, since I didn't take it apart I don't know if I put them back on the same side they came from, but I did clean them off a bit with gasoline (without dissasembly) and then lubricated and saw no obvious problems with them.

thanks
charles
It's better to change all the lifters, and if your going that far, than you might as well change the cam as well. Check out RPI's site on how to see if your cam is worn out.
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  #90  
Old April 16th, 2007, 02:46 PM
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Charles Galpin
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I guess these photos show the camshaft condition fairly well. You can see the shiny edges and brown center on several lobes.

http://lhsw.com/gallery/album14/DSC01880
http://lhsw.com/gallery/album15/DSC01885

On the few lifters I inspected (only because they were out), I honestly didn't notice any rounding. I had assumed any problem with them would be some sort of internal failure/wear. Silly me. I should have taken more pictures too..

I will have some block tests done to make me confident this is not all for naught, and then go for a cam/timing chain & sprocket, lifter replacement. I'll have the boys over for a few beers and laughs if they are available. Had a lot of fun putting it together this weekend. I'm not sure how much more work it is to get the timing cover of, but with lots of careful cleaning it took me all day to just put the rocker assemblies, intake and valve covers back on

charles
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  #91  
Old April 16th, 2007, 04:17 PM
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Not my listing. Just for your consideration.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/land-...QQcmdZViewItem
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  #92  
Old April 16th, 2007, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stmpede
Not my listing. Just for your consideration.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/land-...QQcmdZViewItem
Seems a bit pricey for a 4.0L.
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  #93  
Old April 16th, 2007, 05:00 PM
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I don't know what they normally go for, but it does have a new front cover, water pump, VCs and heads, so you don't have to pay for all those gaskets, head bolts, machine shop work etc. Probably about evens out I would think.
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  #94  
Old April 16th, 2007, 05:59 PM
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Just food for thought. I used to have a '95 RR with the 4.0. It started making that same noise. I too, thought that it was either the lifters and/or cam. A friend recommended I pull the pan and check the draw tube/screen for the oil. I did. And the screen was packed full of old sealant that had broken off from resealing the oil pan.
I then cleaned the draw tube out and thoroughly cleaned out the screen. Put everything back together. Filled her up with oil and some 'Restore' oil additive. She ran fine from then on. I sold her off about 6 months after all that happened. The guy I sold it to lives down the road and still drives it daily and told me there have been no problems. It happened back in 2002.
Your situation may be different, so, like I said, just food for thought.
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  #95  
Old April 16th, 2007, 08:14 PM
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Eddie at West Coast Rovers has a brand new 3.9L long block for $2000.00, if anyone is interested. I just talked with him today about it looking for ideas on mine, which appears as though it may have a loose sleeve :-S
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  #96  
Old April 16th, 2007, 09:24 PM
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This thread is getting redundant -- you've got 3 options here: 1. Rebuild the top end with a cam, lifters, rebuilt flattened heads and some seals, pull the pan and check the pickup (though I just did mine with 88K and it was spotless) throw a timing set on it and hope for the best. You'll be out about $1000. Or, #2: buy a used block and hope it was maintained. If you don't perform #1 on that used, unknown 4.0 block after paying shipping on it and spending the time pulling your old block and dropping in the new one, you're crazy. If you go #2, don't throw good money after bad, go full tilt and put a built 4.6 and do 4 wheel burnies at will. This costs more. Option #3 is to drive it until it blows up and then go to option #2.

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  #97  
Old April 16th, 2007, 10:40 PM
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Charles Galpin
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I think option #0 is still open. Drop the pan and check the pickup, if that doesn't resolve it, take it to get a leakdown test to verify the block is ok, and also check oil pressure. I have one car in the body shop right now so won't be working on my truck till later in the week. I'll let you know how the pickup looks - I did have the pan off recently when I replaced the transmission, so maybe i used too much RTV.

I have beer.

charles
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  #98  
Old April 16th, 2007, 10:50 PM
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Charles I am with Tony!
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  #99  
Old April 16th, 2007, 11:06 PM
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Charles Galpin
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Well, I am effectively on #3 right now until a) it breaks, or b) I get lucky and it's something stupid like the pickup clogged, or c) I establish what condition my engine really is in before making a decision. After getting burned by taking it to a shop and expecting them to do the right checks, I'd rather be sure before making another mistake. But yes the reality is that if I don't get lucky, I am most likely going to run her till she pukes and replace it with a motor built by someone who knows what they are doing

charles
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  #100  
Old April 17th, 2007, 01:21 AM
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A power balance test could be informative. Block off the IAC hose like you were setting the idle. Then remove every plug wire one at a time to determine which cylinders are making power and which are not. Try to use plug wire removal pliers if possible. A rpm gauge directly on the coil makes this easier to do. This can help you to find the mechanical problems later on. Leakdown test is a good idea as well.

Kudos to you for reassembling to continue with diagnosis.

JP
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