Engine rebuild/replace advise needed. - Page 4 - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #61  
Old April 10th, 2007, 08:04 AM
cgalpin's Avatar
cgalpin
Status: Offline
Charles Galpin
'94 D90 ST, '63 SeriesIIA
Site Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: South Riding, VA
Posts: 11,625
Registry
Thanks John

I plan on replacing the head gaskets to be sure. If the block had any major issues, wouldn't there have been more evidence? I showed no exhaust leak in the coolant according to the mechanic that looked at my truck.

Personally I think my overflow tanks has a leak at the seam and I have just been losing coolant over time as pressure built up and then escaped there.

charles
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #62  
Old April 10th, 2007, 09:39 AM
Davis's Avatar
Davis
Status: Offline
Chris Davis
94 NAS D90 6.2LS
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,505
You can fairly easily pressure test your coolant tank. Are you using the oh too small black metal coolant tank still? Those suck. I would recommend upgrading to the larger plastic clear or black disco tank if you are. It can bolt on in the same place. It has a slightly different hose configuration, but that is easily overcome (I tapped the extra out into one of my heater hoses).
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old April 10th, 2007, 09:40 AM
Bowtracer's Avatar
Bowtracer
Status: Offline
Peter Sherman
NAS 110
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Old Mill Creek IL
Posts: 690
does your mech have the heads off yet
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #64  
Old April 10th, 2007, 10:22 AM
cgalpin's Avatar
cgalpin
Status: Offline
Charles Galpin
'94 D90 ST, '63 SeriesIIA
Site Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: South Riding, VA
Posts: 11,625
Registry
Chris, yes the old small metal tank. I'll look into replacing it with a larger one.

Peter, no the heads are on, but the rocker assemblies have been removed and the camshaft/rods/tappets are exposed. Am I in a position to do any testing with it like this? I'm not sure how much work it would be to re-assemble just to do some further testing, but if it would allow me to say for certain if my block and bottem end is good or not, Id consider it.

The sad thing is I took it to the shop for exactly this reason. I am a parts changer at best. I expected them to be able to at least properly diagnose it, and do any tests that could be done before opening it up.

I am waiting for them to get all the bits together that they pulled so I can have it towed home.

charles
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old April 10th, 2007, 11:10 AM
kellymoe's Avatar
kellymoe
Status: Offline
kevin
defender 130
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: burbank california
Posts: 967
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil McCauley

I think 3.9 is too weak for your 130. It's bad enough in a 90, can't believe you still want to use that even with a cam upgrade.

Neil
LOL!! I have a 3.5 in there now. I want to keep the carburetor set up I have in there and with the 3.9 it's pretty simple to keep the carb without changing anything. It boils down to $$$. I have the 3.9 already with around 35k miles on it sitting in the garage. I am planning on a cam with more torque, maybe a Isky cam, new lifters, main bearing etc..... This is all new to me so when I come across someone who has done it before I tend to pick they're brain for info.
The 3.9 is the only thing I can afford right now so need to make the best of it. The only time I wish for more power are headwinds and highway grades, basically anytime I drive Hwy 395 So any power upgrade will be a bonus for me.
Do you belong to any Land Rover clubs? The So Cal Land Rover Club is heading up to Death Valley for it's 7 annual Rover Rendezvous on the 20th of April. Lots of trucks to check out and lots of fun trails. You should try and make it up there.

Kevin
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old April 10th, 2007, 11:52 AM
evilfij's Avatar
evilfij
Status: Offline
evilfij
I have never seen a rover in person
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: on the internet
Posts: 14,688
A 3.9 that has been overheated will likely have out of round bores and a much higher potential for a dropped liner.

Get a used block and build you motor and then swap it to your truck. The 3.9 short block is likely junk if you cooked it.
__________________
*not legal advice*
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old April 10th, 2007, 01:31 PM
cgalpin's Avatar
cgalpin
Status: Offline
Charles Galpin
'94 D90 ST, '63 SeriesIIA
Site Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: South Riding, VA
Posts: 11,625
Registry
Ok, so I talked to D&D. I don't think the pricing is as good as Peter says, but not bad. I haven't done too much price shopping, but the D&D prices are certainly less than AB, and the machining prices are better than anything local too. I'd rather use a single shop for both the parts and the machining that deals with these motors and has a good reputation. It seems my options going with this approach looks like

a) Spend about $950 to be able to replace the camshaft/lifters/rocker assembly (reman), timing chain and gears, and the head gasket, head bolts. This includes a complete overhaul gasket set as its cheaper than piece mealing it.
b) Add $450 if I need a timing chain cover if the oil pump is bad or I am worried it might be or go bad later.
c) Add $400 and he'd rebuild the heads
d) Add $1500 for a rebuilt short block 4.x (not sure exactly yet - need opinions, but I'd get a different cam now too to take advantage of the 4L and rebuilt heads)

So, being that i'd be in past 50% if I just wanted to do what seemed necessary and right, I'm not opposed to go the whole hog and build up a complete rebuild for $3500 give or take. In for a penny, in for a pound. The net result would be the stronger block, and better performance from what others are saying, but I'd settle for better durability alone.

As far as time goes, I don't think the full rebuild would take that much longer than not replacing the block - were talking some motor mounts, flywheel and bellhousing and renting a engine puller. Easier to do the work out of the truck anyway no?

Comments?
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old April 10th, 2007, 01:47 PM
Neil McCauley's Avatar
Neil McCauley
Status: Offline
Neil McCauley
94 ST, 97 ST, 93 110
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,366
Quote:
Originally Posted by kellymoe
LOL!! I have a 3.5 in there now. I want to keep the carburetor set up I have in there and with the 3.9 it's pretty simple to keep the carb without changing anything. It boils down to $$$. I have the 3.9 already with around 35k miles on it sitting in the garage. I am planning on a cam with more torque, maybe a Isky cam, new lifters, main bearing etc..... This is all new to me so when I come across someone who has done it before I tend to pick they're brain for info.
The 3.9 is the only thing I can afford right now so need to make the best of it. The only time I wish for more power are headwinds and highway grades, basically anytime I drive Hwy 395 So any power upgrade will be a bonus for me.
Do you belong to any Land Rover clubs? The So Cal Land Rover Club is heading up to Death Valley for it's 7 annual Rover Rendezvous on the 20th of April. Lots of trucks to check out and lots of fun trails. You should try and make it up there.

Kevin
Nahh I don't have time for offroading, just home to work and to costco every so often. haha I see Trevor Tarr of SCLR and his truck up and down Fremont & FairOaks sometimes. pm me and I"ll give you my cell, I'd like to see how you plan on biulding this 3.9. I just permanently mounted a stainless steel magma grill on my series III bumper, if you buy some carne asada and we can test it out at your pad.

Neil
__________________
A guy told me one time "don't let yourself get attached to anything you are not willing to walk out on in 30 seconds flat if you feel the heat from around the corner"

Robert Deniro
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old April 10th, 2007, 04:01 PM
evilfij's Avatar
evilfij
Status: Offline
evilfij
I have never seen a rover in person
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: on the internet
Posts: 14,688
a) Spend about $950 to be able to replace the camshaft/lifters/rocker assembly (reman), timing chain and gears, and the head gasket, head bolts. This includes a complete overhaul gasket set as its cheaper than piece mealing it.
b) Add $450 if I need a timing chain cover if the oil pump is bad or I am worried it might be or go bad later.
c) Add $400 and he'd rebuild the heads
d) Add $1500 for a rebuilt short block 4.x (not sure exactly yet - need opinions, but I'd get a different cam now too to take advantage of the 4L and rebuilt heads)"

a) the prices are a bit high, but within the range. DII rockers are cheap. Crower cam is cheap. Cloyes timing gears are cheap.

b) on the 3.9 non-serp the oil pump is rebuildable without the cover.

c) again, a little high. SKim them and valve job without a regrind is about $250 a pair here, or better yet just get some used 4.0 heads and do the valve job yourself which is free when you figure the seals come in the full gasket kit. The new style seals are much better.

d) a used 4.0 or 4.6 and new main bearings and cross seals should be fine. No need for a full rebuild.
__________________
*not legal advice*
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old April 10th, 2007, 07:02 PM
Neil McCauley's Avatar
Neil McCauley
Status: Offline
Neil McCauley
94 ST, 97 ST, 93 110
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,366
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij
a) Spend about $950 to be able to replace the camshaft/lifters/rocker assembly (reman), timing chain and gears, and the head gasket, head bolts. This includes a complete overhaul gasket set as its cheaper than piece mealing it.
b) Add $450 if I need a timing chain cover if the oil pump is bad or I am worried it might be or go bad later.
c) Add $400 and he'd rebuild the heads
d) Add $1500 for a rebuilt short block 4.x (not sure exactly yet - need opinions, but I'd get a different cam now too to take advantage of the 4L and rebuilt heads)"

a) the prices are a bit high, but within the range. DII rockers are cheap. Crower cam is cheap. Cloyes timing gears are cheap.

b) on the 3.9 non-serp the oil pump is rebuildable without the cover.

c) again, a little high. SKim them and valve job without a regrind is about $250 a pair here, or better yet just get some used 4.0 heads and do the valve job yourself which is free when you figure the seals come in the full gasket kit. The new style seals are much better.

d) a used 4.0 or 4.6 and new main bearings and cross seals should be fine. No need for a full rebuild.


Ron, in the 3.9 timing cover, theres a pump gear inside the cover, isn't that part non-rebiuldable?

Neil
__________________
A guy told me one time "don't let yourself get attached to anything you are not willing to walk out on in 30 seconds flat if you feel the heat from around the corner"

Robert Deniro
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old April 10th, 2007, 09:24 PM
Bowtracer's Avatar
Bowtracer
Status: Offline
Peter Sherman
NAS 110
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Old Mill Creek IL
Posts: 690
It is rebuildable
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old April 10th, 2007, 11:10 PM
Davis's Avatar
Davis
Status: Offline
Chris Davis
94 NAS D90 6.2LS
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,505
I rebuilt mine.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old April 11th, 2007, 10:57 AM
Robbie Donaldson's Avatar
Robbie Donaldson
Status: Offline
Robbie Donaldson
1995 Discovery
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Oak Hill, VA
Posts: 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil McCauley
Ron, in the 3.9 timing cover, theres a pump gear inside the cover, isn't that part non-rebiuldable?

Neil
i believe rebuildable on the non-serp motors - just two pieces/gears. on the serp engines, non-rebuildable gerotor thing that is in place in the front cover. just went through that with my 95 disco rebuild.

Charles, i have the 3.9 i just pulled from my disco sitting next to the truck if you want to rebuild that for cheap. i only pulled it because i needed to replace headgaskets and figured might as well go whole hog and replaced it with a 4.2, cam, timing gears, new hd motor mounts, etc. egine itself ran great and no overheating. i also bought all parts through D&D. i can pull up my receipts at home tonight if you want to compare. have an engine stand and engine lift sitting in my garage if you want to borrow as well. i should just be down the road from you off FFX Cty Parkway.

Follow-up Post:

oh, and Tony had mentioned it earlier, but there is a machine shop over in Falls Church, Allied Machine, that does most all the head work for the Rover shops/dealerships in the area. really good to work with. Not the cheapest prices, cost me around $400 for the heads to be rebuilt, but they are quick and do excellent work - 703-533-8355

i also took all my parts to be cleaned/dipped there. they are right off rt 7 past the 66 exit.
__________________
1995 Discovery
1995 RRC LWB
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old April 11th, 2007, 01:01 PM
Neil McCauley's Avatar
Neil McCauley
Status: Offline
Neil McCauley
94 ST, 97 ST, 93 110
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbie Donaldson
i believe rebuildable on the non-serp motors - just two pieces/gears. on the serp engines, non-rebuildable gerotor thing that is in place in the front cover. just went through that with my 95 disco rebuild.

Charles, i have the 3.9 i just pulled from my disco sitting next to the truck if you want to rebuild that for cheap. i only pulled it because i needed to replace headgaskets and figured might as well go whole hog and replaced it with a 4.2, cam, timing gears, new hd motor mounts, etc. egine itself ran great and no overheating. i also bought all parts through D&D. i can pull up my receipts at home tonight if you want to compare. have an engine stand and engine lift sitting in my garage if you want to borrow as well. i should just be down the road from you off FFX Cty Parkway.

Follow-up Post:

oh, and Tony had mentioned it earlier, but there is a machine shop over in Falls Church, Allied Machine, that does most all the head work for the Rover shops/dealerships in the area. really good to work with. Not the cheapest prices, cost me around $400 for the heads to be rebuilt, but they are quick and do excellent work - 703-533-8355

i also took all my parts to be cleaned/dipped there. they are right off rt 7 past the 66 exit.
When it comes to the timing cover on a 3.9, I believe you have to make sure the surface inside the pump thats actually part of the timing cover is not worn in from the gears. If it is, I believe you can't just put in new gears. It's good to know that I can re-use my timing cover, always cool to save a few bucks.

Neil
__________________
A guy told me one time "don't let yourself get attached to anything you are not willing to walk out on in 30 seconds flat if you feel the heat from around the corner"

Robert Deniro
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old April 11th, 2007, 01:15 PM
Abrooks's Avatar
Abrooks
Status: Offline
Tony Brooks
.
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 4,926
Robbie, did you finish the build up and installation?
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old April 11th, 2007, 01:23 PM
Robbie Donaldson's Avatar
Robbie Donaldson
Status: Offline
Robbie Donaldson
1995 Discovery
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Oak Hill, VA
Posts: 285
build up and install yes but still haven't finished connecting all the hoses and electricals. a vacation got in the way last week and been busy painting baby room this week. will have some time Thurs and Fri night to work on it. hopefully have it running within the next 2 weeks.

here's a bunch of pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/3984692...7594501387574/
don't have any of it sitting inside bolted up yet.
__________________
1995 Discovery
1995 RRC LWB
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old April 11th, 2007, 02:27 PM
cgalpin's Avatar
cgalpin
Status: Offline
Charles Galpin
'94 D90 ST, '63 SeriesIIA
Site Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: South Riding, VA
Posts: 11,625
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbie Donaldson
Charles, i have the 3.9 i just pulled from my disco sitting next to the truck if you want to rebuild that for cheap. i only pulled it because i needed to replace headgaskets and figured might as well go whole hog and replaced it with a 4.2, cam, timing gears, new hd motor mounts, etc. egine itself ran great and no overheating. i also bought all parts through D&D. i can pull up my receipts at home tonight if you want to compare. have an engine stand and engine lift sitting in my garage if you want to borrow as well. i should just be down the road from you off FFX Cty Parkway.
Robbie, I'd definitely like to compare prices and pick your brain about this. I'll PM you my info - please let me know when it's convenient for you. I'm not sure I want to stick to a 3.9 if I'm going to this much trouble as well though.

charles
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old April 12th, 2007, 09:27 AM
cgalpin's Avatar
cgalpin
Status: Offline
Charles Galpin
'94 D90 ST, '63 SeriesIIA
Site Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: South Riding, VA
Posts: 11,625
Registry
Right now I'm leaning towards using D&D for all of it since there doesn't appear to be any benefit price wise to go local for the heads and at that point I might as well sole source all of it.

So, can anyone tell if the the blocks are different across the 4.0/4.2/4.6 line, or is all in the camshaft? What other specifics should I be asking for? I assume I should expect a rebuilt shortblock to include new main bearings, timing chain and sprokets, and a new camshaft correct (all assembled right)?

Is there anything rover specific or specific to a 3.9 -> 4.x conversion that I need to be aware about to tell D&D other than it sounds like there are timing cover differences?

thanks
charles
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old April 12th, 2007, 11:45 AM
LRover's Avatar
LRover
Status: Offline
J. Michael McCaig
D90 ST, LR110, Series IIa, RRC
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: VA
Posts: 479
3.9 - 4.2 blocks are the same. 4.0 - 4.6 blocks are the same. You can use the 4.0 - 4.6 block in place of your 3.9 but the late model factory short block will not have a cam that will work with a distributor so you will need to change that. You will be able to use your original front cover etc.
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old April 12th, 2007, 11:51 AM
cgalpin's Avatar
cgalpin
Status: Offline
Charles Galpin
'94 D90 ST, '63 SeriesIIA
Site Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: South Riding, VA
Posts: 11,625
Registry
Thanks Michael. Just to be clear, if I want to use my distributor (and I do), then I need to make sure I am getting a 4.2 block then correct?

thanks
charles
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions

Tags
ac, engine, rebuild

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
300 Tdi Egt Q?????? Buckon37s Defender Technical Discussions 37 July 11th, 2012 11:26 AM
Engine Proble: Please Advise saber6 Defender Technical Discussions 24 November 6th, 2009 10:06 AM
service engine VS. check engine scubadanster Defender Technical Discussions 18 June 23rd, 2009 11:18 AM
Turbo/Supercharger upgrade advise needed babushka99 Defender Technical Discussions 2 October 16th, 2004 08:26 PM
Oil Info XD90 Defender Technical Discussions 5 September 7th, 2004 10:07 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:34 PM.


Copyright