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  #21  
Old April 7th, 2007, 11:21 AM
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Peter Sherman
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Put a 4.6 or 4.2 lower in your 3.9 with a cam & some porting & a balance job & youll have some NICE power

Try some marvel mystery oil in the cc if that quiets it down your ok. 90k is not that many miles if you have taken any sort of care.

build another engine & drive it till it puks!


Will is a great guy but why not build what you want get a block from D&D 500$ put the shit in it you want its not rocket science..
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  #22  
Old April 7th, 2007, 05:26 PM
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Just an FYI Trevor isn't with Treasured anymore. He's got his own shop in Elizabethtown PA. About 2.5 hours from me. His email is trevor@roverlab.com Btw let me know if you need help.
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  #23  
Old April 7th, 2007, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abrooks
...that airpark rover place in Gaithursburg ...
wassat? I know that area a little bit (Battley Cycles is there I think)... I need a good shop.
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  #24  
Old April 7th, 2007, 10:20 PM
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loose sleeves?

If your engine overheated, it is also possible the cylinder liners came loose, and are moving up and down slightly with the piston as the engine runs. The cylinder liners are basically pipes made out of steel pressed into the aluminum block at time of manufacture. Rover tolerances being what they are, the liners on many engines weren't well seated (engine machining shavings, etc in the way). So when it overheats, it comes loose and gets only worse with time; it's called a "dropped liner." Notorious rover engine problem. Basically, any competent auto machine shop can pull out the old liners and press in slightly larger ones. Don't know the cost.
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  #25  
Old April 7th, 2007, 10:30 PM
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Not to be a contrarion, but I'd be amazed if he'd dropped a liner on a 3.9 with low miles and good maintainence. A 4.0 with 150K with infrequent oil changes, sure, but these are strong motors. My gut says that a head job will resolve this. Hell, we couldn't even hear the knock the other night! Granted, it is a rover, so all bets are off the table. . .
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  #26  
Old April 7th, 2007, 10:50 PM
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Peter Sherman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptMidnite
If your engine overheated, it is also possible the cylinder liners came loose, and are moving up and down slightly with the piston as the engine runs. The cylinder liners are basically pipes made out of steel pressed into the aluminum block at time of manufacture. Rover tolerances being what they are, the liners on many engines weren't well seated (engine machining shavings, etc in the way). So when it overheats, it comes loose and gets only worse with time; it's called a "dropped liner." Notorious rover engine problem. Basically, any competent auto machine shop can pull out the old liners and press in slightly larger ones. Don't know the cost.

I have tried to press these out & its not an easy thing. If you get it out then what are you gonna put in??
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  #27  
Old April 8th, 2007, 12:41 PM
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Charles Galpin
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Oh yeah, at these rates, it opens the doors to all kinds of options, even towing it around to various places for estimates. But I'm liking the sound of having them put it back together and try some marvel mystery oil and see if I can at least run it around to get opinions from rover folks.

Tony, literally as I hit the street it started up again - didn't want to turn around in case you guys had pulled out already. Then by the time I pulled off 66 (say 30 minutes) it didn't make the noise. The next day it was back again...

Again I need to hear exactly what this mechanic thinks he's seeing. They said they recently worked on a disco with a similar issue.

In the interest of full disclosure I have no idea if the PO maintained this well or not. I have hardly put any miles on it but have changed the oil regularily. It has had a overheating problem, and gone into the red on more than one occasion, but nothing recently until this incident, and I am not sure it actualy overheated this time anyway.

charles
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  #28  
Old April 8th, 2007, 01:15 PM
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Guess I left just in time then! :-)
I wonder if it could even be something as simple as a blown lifter.
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  #29  
Old April 8th, 2007, 02:18 PM
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Andrew Najarian
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Thats what I was just thinking. What does it sound like? First he said knocking, now it sounds like you guys are describing it as more of a ticking/valve train sound. I don't think the rocker arms will quiet down after running so I would lean toward the lifters. It might be worth replacing them and seeing how it sounds then...certainly a lot cheaper than a complete rebuild/replacement.
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  #30  
Old April 8th, 2007, 04:10 PM
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Charles Galpin
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Sadly no-one but my self and this shop has heard it. It doesn't sounds like a typical valve train noise to me. It was much louder and singular sounding (to me anyway). It's definitely a knocking sound but don't know how to describe it better. Ran great otherwise - Tony even commented on it.

Wouldn't a competent mechanic be able to tell if it was a bad lifter? There isn't anything special about this engine - it's like old 70's american stuff right?

I think I'll get the mechanic's opinion of the problem on monday and ask them to put it back together. When I checked Friday they had it stripped down to the point of having the cam exposed. I'll record the sound for you guys to hear.

What does a used 3.9/40 engine from a disco run?

charles
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  #31  
Old April 8th, 2007, 04:15 PM
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Probably a few hundred from a junkyard & it'll probably come with a short term warranty and most of the ancilliaries too!
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  #32  
Old April 8th, 2007, 05:24 PM
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If they have it stripped down that far already, why not just have it towed home, replace the lifters, rods and rockers, get the heads machined and put it back together? They've done the hard work of disassembly and if they haven't seen a burnt piston or something else obvious, I'd just go for the top-end rebuild. Hell, if worse comes to worst, you could just swap over those components to a new shortblock. The cost of those parts is minimal and there's a machine shop in Falls Church that knows rover heads and will rebuild with new valves for under $500.

Remember that if you get a used motor you have even less knowledge of its history than you do of your existing one . . .
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  #33  
Old April 8th, 2007, 05:36 PM
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True, personally I would rebuild, but for someone who can't do the work and wants to save money, it is an option. Actually I have always thought it was BS that some of the aftermarket/extended warranty companies make our techs install junkyard engines b/c they don't want to cough up the $$ for a factory shortblock!
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  #34  
Old April 8th, 2007, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abrooks
If they have it stripped down that far already, why not just have it towed home, replace the lifters, rods and rockers, get the heads machined and put it back together? They've done the hard work of disassembly.
I'll help you tow it if you want. I ditto Tony's comment: now the hard part is done (diagnostic), getting the parts and fixing the head will be the easy part. Probably half an afternoon. Worth the trouble if you ask me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abrooks
Remember that if you get a used motor you have even less knowledge of its history than you do of your existing one . . .
Used motor would be a temporary solution until you get yours cleaned up.
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  #35  
Old April 8th, 2007, 08:27 PM
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There ya go, Charles, between you, Loic and myself, we can have it realistically buttoned back up in an afternoon. Just order the parts (non-rover for a lot of them), have the heads rebuilt and we'll knock it out. Supply beers and pizza and I'm sure we can get 10 more people giving moral support!
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  #36  
Old April 8th, 2007, 11:15 PM
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Ok, let me talk to the tech and report back exactly what he thinks is good and bad. I'm game for doing a top end rebuild if you guys will assist - I really appreciate the offer. I'm pretty green at this so I'd even need help determining what other parts I'd need.

What are we talking here? Using AB prices for parts (i assume worst case) I'm guessing

rebuild heads $500
lifters $200
pushrods $100
rockers $?
camshaft $200 (does this include bearings?)
timing chain and sprocket? $?
misc like new seals, head bolts? $?

Just want to make sure I understand what were talking about here.

If there was a worst case scenario where It was determined I should abandon my block, I see AB is selling new short blocks for $3800. If I went that route, are we pretty much talking the same additional costs as the above to swap it out?

thanks
charles
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  #37  
Old April 8th, 2007, 11:43 PM
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You wouldn't need the cam, timing chain or sprockets with the shortblock. Not sure if lifters would come with the new one or not, but I doubt it. Unless the pushrods are bent I wouldn't bother replacing them, just clean them up real well and they will be fine. Unfortunately the gaskets and head bolts are surprisingly expensive (although not as bad as for the Bosch engine).

BTW, you should replace the intake bolts as well as the head bolts.
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  #38  
Old April 9th, 2007, 10:17 AM
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Peter Sherman
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Why are you making this so hard for your self!
Call these guys order what you need & build yourself an engine with some giddy up.
http://www.aluminumv8.com/
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  #39  
Old April 9th, 2007, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowtracer
Why are you making this so hard for your self!
Call these guys order what you need & build yourself an engine with some giddy up.
http://www.aluminumv8.com/
Peter has a good point. When I spoke to these guys about 6 months ago, they stated for around $2000 they could build a better than new 4.6. The PITA part would be shipping and installation and I don't know what their time frame is in comparison to yours.
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  #40  
Old April 9th, 2007, 10:55 AM
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Charles Galpin
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Hehe. Not trying to make things hard on myself and if you really can get a rebuild for $2k, I'm all for it. I get a busy signal on their number though. I'll keep trying.

Ok, I just got off the phone with the mechanic who looked at my truck. He didn't do a compression test before opening it up, and hasn't actually removed the heads so he couldn't offer me his opinion on the pistons/cylinders. He did say he cut open the oil filter and found bit of metal. He said he tested for exhaust gas in the coolant and found none, but that wasn't necessarily conclusive as it may only happen at high temperatures. Things he said were bad:

1. A few worn lobes on the cam, at least one bad enough to start getting the rocker loose enough to make a noise

2. lifters worn

3. Said would need rocker arm shafts (not cheap at AB)

4. more than 15deg slop in the timing chain

5. valves worn a bit


Other than the rocker arm shafts I am not sure any of this is outside the scope of the top end rebuild we have been discussing correct? Still not sure what the real cost of this will be.

charles
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