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  #1  
Old September 26th, 2005, 09:12 AM
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engine noise.

My 90 sometimes makes a noise when I start it that usually goes away once the engine warms up. Sounds kinda like a bearing(chopping metal sound) in one of the pullys. It is coming from the camshaft pully and guide pully area. Is there a way to lubricate these or are the all sealed. Could it be something else? The engine runs great, it is just an annoying noise from time to time. Doesn't do it all the time and seems to go away when the enging get hot. Any ideas?
I wouldn't bother with it but it is up for sale so I don't want any potental buyers to have any surprise.

It definatly seems to be coming from the bottom pulley where the crank comes out of.
Thanks
Rich
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  #2  
Old September 26th, 2005, 10:46 AM
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Try to sniff the sound with a 3 ft. length of hose to your ear. I had a noise like that and it turned out to be the tension pully bearing. I let it go thinking it was an alternator bearing, and the tensioner shattered at midnight, 70 miles from home with the family in the car, tossing the serpentine belt and leaving us at the mercy of AAA.

Doug W.
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Old September 26th, 2005, 11:15 AM
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I'm going to do that tonight. Someone also told me it could be a catalytic converter. Sounds like it is coming from the front of the engine though. I will check it out tonight.
Rich
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  #4  
Old September 26th, 2005, 01:40 PM
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Hey Rich - If it is the catalytic converter, then it usually sounds like marbles in a can. I also had a similar noise from the 1998, it ended up being a bearing in the Water Pump going out. The noise was only present at idle and start up. Towards the end of the life of the Water Pump, it began to make a *screeching* noise when I turned the Rover off.

If it is the belt, then maybe try some belt dressing; they can often get very dry.
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Old September 26th, 2005, 01:50 PM
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Roverchic,
That is a perfect description(marbles in a can) that is exactly what it sounds like. I'm going to use a hose like Doug suggested to see if I can narrow it down to one spot. The strange thing is how it goes away when heats up and doesn't always do it.
Rich

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Old September 26th, 2005, 02:59 PM
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If it's marbles, it's very likely a cat. You can just bang the cats with a rubber mallet and you'll hear it.

Don't melt the hose onto them!

Doug W.
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Old September 26th, 2005, 03:04 PM
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Been a couple times I have heard cats go that it sounded like it was comming from up higher in the engine compartment, must be the way the sound resonates in a D-90 engine bay.
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Old September 29th, 2005, 09:59 AM
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Well I check it out with a hose and it seems the noise is coming from the camshaft pulley if that is what it is called. It is the pully that is at the very bottom of the engine that comes out of the oil pan. It noise doesn't seem to be coming from inside the pan, just where the pully is. It looks like this pully holds most of the belts. Sorry for the dumb question but what is this part called and is it a PIA to replace?
Thanks
Rich
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Old September 29th, 2005, 06:59 PM
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Oh that is bad. There is not to my knowlege a bearing in that pulley. The only bearing in that area are crankshaft bearings.

Ron

Edit it is called a crank pulley. You need a big socket and some creativity to remove it.
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  #10  
Old September 29th, 2005, 11:16 PM
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You can also use a long handled screw driver like a stethascope? As it will pickup harmonics better than a hose.
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Old September 29th, 2005, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowtracer
You can also use a long handled screw driver like a stethascope? As it will pickup harmonics better than a hose.
Awesome advice Peter! This is very true and I have used this method often. In fact, I used it to determine that the noise was in fact my Water Pump not the alternator bearing that I once thought. Good luck Rich!
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  #12  
Old September 29th, 2005, 11:48 PM
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Just an off the wall idea but there is a marker to set the timming that sits very close to the crank pully, and if it somehow got a little bent it could be rubbing on the pully itself causing some noise. It is on the top of the pulley and is held on to the front/timming cover with 2 screws. If the sound really is comming from the pulley I would also listen to the oil pan, check to make sure it isn't dented or anything. The pully is a major PITA to get off as it is held on with a big nut torked to 200 ftlbs, the only way I found that I could keep the engine from turning over when I removed it was to use an old belt and clamp it around the water pump pulley with vice grips. putting it in gear wan't enough to stop it from moving. Oh yeah and I had a 2 foot breakerbar with the highlift handle on it for extra leverage.
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  #13  
Old September 30th, 2005, 07:41 AM
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Thanks,
I will have to take this in to the dealer to look at. Ron, If it is a crankshaft pulley what kind of dollars do you think I'm looking at.
Thanks everyone for you help.

Follow-up Post:

Mike,
I will check into the marker. The only stange thing is the noise isn't always there. Seems to improve once it heats up. It sounds kinda like a bearing(something chopping around). The oil pan looks fine and It doesn't appear to be coming from inside the pan, right outside of it where the pulley is.
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  #14  
Old September 30th, 2005, 08:06 AM
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Rich, I still have my old block so i'll take some pics for you so you know what is behind the pulley. But if it has something to do with the pulley I would think it would involve a bit of work to get to the bearings on the crank as you might need to pull the engine out. Have you listened to the oil pump? It is right down there too and if the gears are getting worn they might be making some noise until the oil warms up and the oil pressure drops down.
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  #15  
Old September 30th, 2005, 08:10 AM
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PULL THE ENGINE...oh boy. I think this one is going to hurt. I have to take it to the dealer for this one. Where is the oil pump I will check that today.
Is this huge money if it is the bearings on the crank?
Thanks
Rich
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Old September 30th, 2005, 09:17 AM
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Just my 2 cents worth Rich,
The pulley itself can't make any noise unless its caused by the belt rubbing it. Those crank bearings aren't really the noisy variety, in my opinion. If those bearings were that bad I would think that you would see a leak at the crank seal by now. Mike might be on track with the oil pump, or timing chain maybe?
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Old September 30th, 2005, 09:20 AM
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First, I don't think it is your crankshaft pulley--that pulley is bolted onto the crankshaft and there is no reason why it would do that. Second, if it is only happening at startup, there would really just be two possibly reasons for the noise--the first being a tolerance issue due to two pieces of metal that have not expanded with heat and the second being something starved for oil flow. It is so hard to diagnose without hearing it, but have you ruled out stuck lifters or noisy rockers? I know you tried to dianose where the noise was coming from, but that can be awful hard. Remove one or both of your rocker covers and have a look--don't worry, you can run your engine with these off--and goto a harbor freight or tool king or someplace like that and for $5 get a noise stethescope==it will help.

It could be your oil pump making the noise, but keep in mind that the oil pump is connected to the distributor and the cam shaft so it could translate noises from inside the engine very easily.

Both the cam shaft and the crank shaft have bearings, but, unless oil depraved or very very high miles, they should not be injured. How many miles do you have?

Personally, I am leaning toward lifter/rocker noise--just since that is so common at start up and can really make a racket.
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  #18  
Old October 1st, 2005, 07:56 AM
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This is getting strange.....so I use a stethascope to look for the culprit. I didn't hear anything strange coming from inside the pan or the very front where the cam connects to the pulley. I did hear the nosie using a hose directly at/on the crank pulley center pulley. I let the hose brush up against the steering pump belt pulley which I think is the middle of the crank pulley. I can hear the noise much loader here then the outer and inner pulley. I checked the steering pump with the mechs. stetoscope and couldn't really hear the same sound. Definatley coming from the middle pulley of the crank pulley.
WTF?
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Old October 1st, 2005, 09:54 AM
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Hey Rich, there are I think 3 or 4 bolts that hold the pullies together, aer they by chanch loose?
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  #20  
Old October 1st, 2005, 10:00 AM
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Mike,
Do you mean bolts the PS pump pulley or the crank pulley. The noise is clear at the middle crank pulley but no so clear at the the PS pump. Could the noise travel down the belt?

Thanks
Rich

I read somewhere that there is a washer....from another site:
"I have two questions. Its a 1993 series 1 disco 200tdi.

1. I have a rattling/tinkling from the crank pulley area. I have found that behind the crankshaft pulley right up against the block there is a large dished washer type thing which looks like it goes over the oil seal. Hard to tell or explain to you. This appears to be loose and moves round when the engine is turning. I have been to the dealers and looked throught the parts cd and it isn't listed. All the manuals fail to show anything. Anyone know what it's for? Can I remove it? If I was a betting man I would say it is normally attached to the engine.

2. If I take the crank pulley off to investigate, does anyone know what size socket I need for the crankshaft nut?"
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