Engine Intermittently Stalls/Dies - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old March 17th, 2007, 12:30 AM
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Dalton Allen
1994 D-90
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Engine Intermittently Stalls/Dies

My 1994 NAS D-90 3.9 liter w/ an AC unit was intermittently stalling out, sort of sputtering sometimes dying and when sputtering had no power and/or would lurch and jump when throttle was applied. During these "episodes" the check engine light sometimes came on but no codes were present on the readout box. Then suddenly, the muffler started to spew gasoline out of it - not dripping but blowing it out @ about a quart a minute so I took it in to purportedly the best D-90 mechanic in the bay area who over time and trial and error has replaced:

fuel pressure regulator
fuel pump
fuel relays
ecu
re-chipped efi w/ a tornado chip from RPI Engineering
major tune up w/ plugs wires etc..

I got it back again a few weeks ago and it has been strong as can be - then it started the sputttering crap again a week ago but it was milder than before and went away after it had fully warmed up. Then today after a 1 hour drive it started the intermittent stalling again and the check engine light came back on (flashed on and off then went away w/o codes). When its not crapping out it is the strongest running D-90 anyone has seen (per the 4 mechanics who have looked at it)

I am at a loss - for the record I have also taken it to the dealer to get checked out and to two other mechanics in San Francisco all of whom said it ran great and had no problems....this was before it spewed gas from the muffler - does anyone have any ideas - i love this truck but am really confused and after about 4K my wallet is getting light also, I tkae it way out and cannot get stranded days away from people....

I can be reached at: daltonallen@hotmail.com or 925-478-4233
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  #2  
Old March 17th, 2007, 12:56 AM
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steve
109/110 ambulance-55 series I
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4k

Just to make sure did they change the fuel filter after changing the pump? That can soemtimes stir up soem gunk.

With regards to your problem. I would first clean your steppermotor. it is on the back end of the intake manifold, you can un skrew it and clean it then re install. soem times that can be it. easy enough.

I no longer have a V8 but I had a similar problem once. It turned out to be the mallory distributer I installed was wired slightly wrong and my ecu was shot, I don't know if you have changed the ignition.

Do you have consistant spark?

It is wierd you are not getting any codes. Has your MAF ever been looked at? Do you have some one you could swap with in the area. Also look at your main air hose to make sure it has NO rips or tears.

After 4k I can't believe the fuel is not flowing. Although if you were running rich enough to have gas spewing from you tail pipe I can't believe the fuel pump was shot

Good luck and make sure to list any other non stock mods so everyone can help you out.
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  #3  
Old March 17th, 2007, 01:07 AM
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Dalton Allen
1994 D-90
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I have already had 2 calls so i'd better post it:
The "best D-90 mechanic" I referred to is Mike Green @ West Cost British in Livermore
I also took it to Ed's Autohaus in SF the LR dealer in SF and to AutoEuropa in SF...
Re: the other mods - just suspension, a dual battery system (optima batteries w/ painless performance waterproof kit), stereo, and exhaust..no other engine mods. i believe the fuel flows just gets stuck or?? The pump was just a hail mary really ... chaper than the ecu

I was thinking sediment in tank or something maybe..? Thanks
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  #4  
Old March 17th, 2007, 03:12 AM
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Scott Yates
94 D90 #639, Yellow
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If I understand everything correctly, what your describing as gas coming from the muffler, should not be possible. That amount of fuel would have to enter the cylinders and be expelled down the exhaust with out ever having burned at all. A quart a minute is more than the pump puts out. Was the fuel leaking down onto the exhaust from above maybe? I am NOT saying your a lier by any means. Just trying to understand.
To get any quantity of liquid fuel from inside the exhaust system, you would have to have one or more cylinders firing fuel out of order (ECU) or an intermittent total loss of ignition (Ignition sys).
When it is sputtering, have you noticed any commonalities? Going up or down a hill, right turns only? Anything?
Mine did exactly what you are describing with the exception of liquid fuel coming from the exhaust. Mine had a very heavy smell of fuel but no liquid. Mine after spending nearly as much cash as you have, turned out to be the air intake hose that runs from the MAF to the intake plenum. It had two large holes that the steering column coupler had ripped in it. This is the equivalent of causing a massive vacuum leak. The air enter the engine is no longer a known value to the ECU.
Just FYI, I never found my leak using soapy water or carb cleaner (common methods), Pendy lead me to my problem. I hope this turns out to be yours as well as it is a cheap fix.
All mechanics are not created equal. I used to have my ASE Master Certs as well but I know very little compared to the D90 guys on here. I like several others here, will help as much as we can (although most of them know alot more).
If you have any questions I maybe able to help with, feel free to email or even give me a call (307)399-2902.
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  #5  
Old March 17th, 2007, 07:08 AM
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Phillip
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Genuine cap and rotor?
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  #6  
Old March 17th, 2007, 09:00 AM
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Andrew Vick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rover4x4
Genuine cap and rotor?
X2. I had a crappy Napa rotor new out of the box and I would get massive back firing and a STRONG fuel smell.
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  #7  
Old March 17th, 2007, 10:58 AM
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john
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This happended to me. Here was my problem.
Change the temperature sensor, they can go intermittent. It sounds like the ECU is going to "cold start". This can happen at any time if the sensor is bad, engine thens runs super rich and stalls.

John
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  #8  
Old March 17th, 2007, 12:32 PM
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Dalton Allen
1994 D-90
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thanks for the advice so far - rotor and cap and plug wires are genuine , fuel filter was changed, I will replace the sensor and check the air hose etc. today (although i checked it when this prob. first started). MAF works, it is a new (rebuilt) ECU as well - The fuel was indeed spewing as described and when i described it to my mechanic on the phone he couldnt believe it but - - there it was....anyways thanks again
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  #9  
Old March 17th, 2007, 05:39 PM
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Grasping at straws maybe but I would try hooking a 4' or length of fuel line to the output of the fuel regulator. You can then run the line over the fender into an old milk jug. You can use a measuring cup to first draw some ounce measures on the jug. It is supposed to pass 1 oz. per second. I am thinking that maybe your pressure regulator is jammed closed? Or possibly a crushed return line. I am not sure what else could cause so much back pressure as to force fuel into the exhaust.
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  #10  
Old March 17th, 2007, 06:41 PM
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I once had the EFI in my old V8 stay squirting even after the the ignition was off. It would sit there and squirt liek it was running 4000 rpm's independantly of the engine moving for as long as you would let it sit. Turned out to be the ECU. So anything is possible.
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  #11  
Old March 17th, 2007, 06:57 PM
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Tony Brooks
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Have you checked the ignition control module? I'm also grasping at straws, but it is a known issue on '94s . . .

Good luck!
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  #12  
Old March 18th, 2007, 07:35 PM
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Dalton Allen
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Thanks all - for clarification, the fuel spewing thing was resolved with the replacement of the ECU I could not get any LR genuine parts this weekend - checked the hoses - all fine, will replace the temp. regulator first if that doesnt do it will replace the cap and rotor (even though they are original) then if still screwed the ignition control module then if that doesnt do it you will see it posted here for sale with full disclosure ........
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  #13  
Old March 18th, 2007, 08:04 PM
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Don't give up!! I just spent 4 months working through mine (it's my Daily Driver). I was so frustrated I came very close to selling mine. But having found the issue, I can honestly say, I have never owned a vehicle I liked more. Mine was especially frustrating because it was an issue that appears to have been in place for years. I think it is even the reason the two previous owners sold it.
You, like me, have a strange bug. You can find it, just take your time and hit the board up for info and suggestions. Some of the people here are simply the best!
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  #14  
Old March 19th, 2007, 01:50 AM
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jim pendleton
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Pay if forward Scott.

Help him fix it.

I'll chime in if you all need some direction.

JP

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  #15  
Old March 19th, 2007, 09:15 AM
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Bryan Tate
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I had alot of fuel/black liquids coming out when my MAF went out......
Made a mess on the walls of the garage.....the truck would not hold idle and cut off when at a stop light. Happened only after the truck got good and warmed up......
Doubt that helps, but hated not to share that.
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  #16  
Old March 19th, 2007, 04:44 PM
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Steve Maietta
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There is an electrical connector on the front of the MAF.. right in the center of the engine near the back.. unplug this and check for old nasty grease, clean it up and apply new dielectric grease. plug/unplug it a few times to clean the contacts a bit and then swab it out again and pack it with new electric grease- seat it good. This was an issue on my '94 and this was the solution.
I had similar situation. loss of power, sputtering, gas smell, etc.. I went over many things, but this is what cured it, I guess some of the contacts were nasty and intermittent. This also goes along with many of the ideas posted above, pointing to the MAF.

good luck, youll get it!!

~Steve

Wouldn't it be great to have all the tech threads on this board, PLUS the old Coiler list and the yahoo D90 group, combined into one, indexed PDF? yeah. if I had a free year
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