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  #21  
Old February 14th, 2014, 11:58 AM
spanto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
Slushbox? We are talking about a Land Rover on solid axles right?

If the option is there, I highly recommend an auto
I was understanding that the GM Gen 4 conversion was only afford in auto.

Is there a transmission that mates to the 4.6 that's auto? Hows it look inside the cab?

------ Follow up post added February 14th, 2014 11:59 AM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by o2batsea View Post
A 4.6 can be retrofitted with components from a 3.5/3.9/4.0/4.2 that will allow you to have what is essentially the same everything except for bigger displacement.
Thank Bill. Who's supplying parts for this?
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  #22  
Old February 14th, 2014, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spanto View Post
Is there a transmission that mates to the 4.6 that's auto? Hows it look inside the cab?
ZF 4HP24, IIRC.

Not sure about interior shifter configuration. Maybe someone else on here knows how to mount the shifter so that it doesn't end up on the seatbox.
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  #23  
Old February 14th, 2014, 12:53 PM
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J. Michael McCaig
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You can use the front cover and heads and even the intake from your 3.5 if you want. I built up a '03 4.6 with modified '87 RRC heads and a '62 Buick 4bbl intake manifold with a cam from D&D (see earlier link) for high torque at low rpms. It will pull a house at 300 rpm. I have no problem pulling my '88 on a trailer at highway speeds
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  #24  
Old February 14th, 2014, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertf View Post
I'm with you on that. I picked one up thinking it would be a cheap build. To build a buick 300 stroked engine with a reasonable compression ratio that works with a cam designed for low RPM and bolted up to a ZF isn't that much cheaper than buying the real steel rotating assembly. All of the buick build recipes on the internet require a big overlap cam to keep dynamic compression in check. That isn't the kind of engine I want in a rover
What center line separation are they talking 112 or lower?
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  #25  
Old February 14th, 2014, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spanto View Post
Thank Bill. Who's supplying parts for this?
You pretty much have all you need. Consumables like a upper gasket set, exhaust gaskets, front cover seal for the harmonic balancer, rear main seal while you're at it, a set of hoses, prolly a new water pump. Heck a new timing set can't hurt. You'll maybe want a fresh cam too. The 3.5 one is probably a bit too worn. That means new lifters too. The crankshaft gets a spacer you can make yourself.
If you decide to go with a 4.6 from your local pick-n-pull, try to find one from a GEMS engine. Range Rover P38 or Disco II. I'd have a compression check done to be sure it's healthy.

As noted D&D fab can supply the parts. They may even have a 4.6 they can sell you.
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  #26  
Old February 14th, 2014, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
What center line separation are they talking 112 or lower?
All of crower stuff is 112, but its the combo of LSA and duration that will affect the dynamic CR. I've spent a lot of time going through every piston catalog I could find and with the combination of rover heads,300 crankshaft, rover or 5.7 rods I couldn't get a static compression ratio below around 10.8. To keep that set up from pre igniting you'd end up with a cam profile making peak torque in a very unusable RPM range (Above 3000 RPM)


There are other things you can do like 64 300 heads, but then you get in to finding a needle in a haystack and having to make all new accessory mounts
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  #27  
Old February 14th, 2014, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertf View Post
All of crower stuff is 112, but its the combo of LSA and duration that will affect the dynamic CR. I've spent a lot of time going through every piston catalog I could find and with the combination of rover heads,300 crankshaft, rover or 5.7 rods I couldn't get a static compression ratio below around 10.8. To keep that set up from pre igniting you'd end up with a cam profile making peak torque in a very unusable RPM range (Above 3000 RPM)


There are other things you can do like 64 300 heads, but then you get in to finding a needle in a haystack and having to make all new accessory mounts
Years ago built stroked out from 2.5 to 3 liter 4 cylinder engines and designed the cams.
Agree that there are distinctly different purposed cams for engines that produce different power bands at given RPM ranges.

Am no fan of high compression gasoline engines, but there is no real substitution for displacement.

Often the higher compression engines can eliminate pinging with lower timing advance, but since a Land Rover is not a formula racer, it really doesn't need high compression.
The increased displacement of a stroker cank will produce more than enough power for a daily driver with compression low enough to burn the low octane regular pump gasoline.

Not being a fan of the Rover V8, I think they lack longevity in the first place, so prefer a diesel like the OM617 which often will run a million miles before needing a rebuild.
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  #28  
Old February 14th, 2014, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
ZF 4HP24, IIRC.

Not sure about interior shifter configuration. Maybe someone else on here knows how to mount the shifter so that it doesn't end up on the seatbox.
Is that set-up in a 90? That's the part I'm finding difficult, adding the ZF to a 110. No real "factory" solutions that I've found yet. Maybe it's out there somewhere...

------ Follow up post added February 14th, 2014 07:52 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by o2batsea View Post
You pretty much have all you need. Consumables like a upper gasket set, exhaust gaskets, front cover seal for the harmonic balancer, rear main seal while you're at it, a set of hoses, prolly a new water pump. Heck a new timing set can't hurt. You'll maybe want a fresh cam too. The 3.5 one is probably a bit too worn. That means new lifters too. The crankshaft gets a spacer you can make yourself.
So is that most everything besides the block? Might it be simpler to just buy a complete engine?

------ Follow up post added February 14th, 2014 07:54 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post

Not being a fan of the Rover V8, I think they lack longevity in the first place, so prefer a diesel like the OM617 which often will run a million miles before needing a rebuild.
Robert, I'interested in the reasons why your nor a fan of the V8?

On another note, is it more complicated to convert a previous V8 to diesel?
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  #29  
Old February 14th, 2014, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spanto View Post


So is that most everything besides the block? Might it be simpler to just buy a complete engine?

The problem is there was never a factory 4.6 in the configuration you need. Any take out needs the following:

Camshaft (I went with crower 50229 from jegs or summit, ignore the retainer)
Lifters (jegs, summit, whatever fits a mid 60s buick 350)
crankshaft spacer (I bought my most current one from the wedge shop, but they can be made from a spare balancer or an old timing gear if you have more time than money. )
timing chain (I went with the edelbrock chain)

You will need to swap the intake from your old engine over, along with the oil pan and timing chain cover and everything that attaches to it (waterpump, oil pump, distributor, crankshaft pulley with spacer at the outside edge)
Swap accessory brackets over too

You will have to smack the oil pan with a hammer a few times for it to clear the connecting rod. Its not much, like 1/32 to 1/16 of an inch additional clearance needed. I painted mine with dykem blue, spun the rotating assembly over a few times, and smacked it with a body hammer at the shiny spots. It took very little work.

The strombergs will need to be rejetted at minimum. Edelbrock intake and carb would be a good option, or fuel injection, but that's another thread.

if you get one from a late model disco or RR with secondary air injection (abbreviated SAI in most places) you will either need to plug the holes, or swap non SAI heads machined for composite gaskets.

Its simple. I'm swapping a 3.9 for a 4.6 in my trail truck tomorrow

oh yeah, when you install the camshaft you need to swap the distributor drive gear, spacer, and bolt/washer over from your old engine. I had some trouble finding new parts, but was able to after looking at a few vendors. swaping parts over will save you some stress.

Oh, 1 more thing. You need to remove the dowel pin off the back of the crankshaft. Tape it and hacksaw it flush. It sounds crude but its been successfully done on just about every blown up 3.9 to 4.0 swap. Been running one that way for at least 5 years.
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  #30  
Old February 14th, 2014, 08:19 PM
spanto
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That doesn't seem to complicated. I would love to see some pictures of your set-up when it's in. What transmission are you using? Is this a 110 or 90?
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  #31  
Old February 14th, 2014, 08:29 PM
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neither, I'm just a lurker
95 disco. All of it still applies to a defender, I just have a slightly different oil pump and timing cover.

Auto, ZF 4HP22 for now. Its got 260somethingk miles on it and I've been really bad about the maintenance for the last 240k. Never changed the filter . When it goes I'd like to do the 22/24 hybrid.

Pictures are going to be very boring. The engine is already built and its going to look like an engine going out and an identical engine going in.
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  #32  
Old February 17th, 2014, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spanto View Post
Robert, I'interested in the reasons why your nor a fan of the V8?
You're lucky if you get 150K out of these Rover V8s. The engines also get to a point where they overheat and have cylinder liner issues. They drink fuel like a sailor at the bar that just got into port for the first time in months. They are ECU controlled adding a whole series of ones and zeros that you have to deal with, and so on.[/QUOTE]


Quote:
Originally Posted by spanto View Post
Robert, I'interested in the reasons why your nor a fan of the V8?

On another note, is it more complicated to convert a previous V8 to diesel?
Not really and you end up with a much simpler all mechanical engine if you make the right choice. The TDI only needs power to the fuel shutoff solenoid to provide fuel.
The OM617 needs only fuel... the fuel is shutoff by introducing vacuum.
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"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #33  
Old February 17th, 2014, 09:52 AM
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Of course there are alot of "why's" associated with this....but ain't it cool!

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  #34  
Old February 17th, 2014, 10:11 AM
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Thanks for the response Robert
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  #35  
Old February 17th, 2014, 02:05 PM
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Nice Bill! Yes the why's do follow but gotta love the grunt.
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  #36  
Old February 17th, 2014, 02:34 PM
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Anyone know if were suppost to upgrade to the adjustable fuel pressure regulator if we upgrade to 4.6 with crower cam?
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  #37  
Old February 17th, 2014, 07:26 PM
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You should get a custom fueling map for it to be setup properly.
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  #38  
Old February 17th, 2014, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Anyone know if were suppost to upgrade to the adjustable fuel pressure regulator if we upgrade to 4.6 with crower cam?
I wouldn't bother, but if it makes you happy.

Quote:
You should get a custom fueling map for it to be setup properly.
True, but the 14CUX will run it just fine. The 14CUX is fuel only, so it's relatively bullet proof. Or go Megasquirt ( I have a couple assembled ones for sale...)
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  #39  
Old February 17th, 2014, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o2batsea View Post
I wouldn't bother, but if it makes you happy. True, but the 14CUX will run it just fine. The 14CUX is fuel only, so it's relatively bullet proof. Or go Megasquirt ( I have a couple assembled ones for sale...)
I run the 14cux with my 4.6 and it works pretty good .
Tell me more about your Mega Squirts ? Are they built to run with the 3.9-4.2 plenum and intake ?
Been thinking about this on my 4.2 for the 110 .
Thanks
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  #40  
Old February 17th, 2014, 10:05 PM
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The stock ecu will adjust to some extent but base mapping will be wrong.
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