Emergency Brake Issues - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old April 5th, 2005, 11:10 AM
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Robert Ragland
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Emergency Brake Issues

After spending a few minutes searching various posts, I couldn't find anything related to what I am experiencing. Then again, maybe I missed something given the brake is called many things (hand, parking, emergency, transmission).

Anyway, how should the truck feel when the brake is applied. I would expect that if the truck was rolling in neutral, the brake would take hold and bring the truck to rest smoothly (assuming it wasn't yanked full force). Mine grabs hold intermittently, and it feels like the whole drivetrain shutters. Is this merely the sign of worn shoes on the brake drum?

Also, there is a knocking noise that is noticeable when rolling to a stop. It will occur in neutral or engaged, sounds like it is centrally located. No, it is not lug nuts, and the u-joints were given some extra grease before I took the mechanic for a ride to hear it.

Any thoughts before he starts taking things apart.
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  #2  
Old April 5th, 2005, 11:46 AM
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Mike Hippert
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You should NEVER stop a Rover with the hand break! It can screw up the T-case. The E-brake is on the back of the T-case, the rear output, if applied when moving it will cause stop the rear tires from turning but at the same time the front tires will keep turning and so will the front drive shaft which in turn, turns the gears in the T-case that are also dealing with the stopped rear drive shaft, most likely why you have all the shaking.

To test it stop on a step hill and apply the hand break, it should hold the truck. If it is adjusted right it will rub ever so slightly when the handle is released all the way, but if your drum is warped some or worn funny it may grab and release.
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Old April 5th, 2005, 12:03 PM
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Robert Ragland
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Thanks for the reply, Mike. For what it's worth, I never stop the truck that way, but was testing the brake. I would expect the shaking if it had been pulled up hard, but was thinking light pressure should give a smooth slow. Thanks for the correction, I'll try your suggestion.

Do you think a bad drum or worn parts would lead to rubbing on the shaft, causing the noise?
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Old April 5th, 2005, 01:21 PM
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John B.
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There is nothing wrong with using the handbrake while moving. It is there as an emergency brake. It should act smoothly. Try adjusting it and see where that goes.
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Old April 5th, 2005, 01:42 PM
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Well I have been jumping out of the 90 a few times (you tend to do this when you have no doors) and the truck was still rolling a little I yank up on the break and it does the shutter even though it is nearly stopped. Thats how I know.

It could be worn or bad parts in the drum, it could also be oil from the t-case in the drum if it is slipping at all. I don't think it would rub on the shaft but it would be the pads rubbing in the drum. You could loosen the bolt on the drum so that the pads don't come into contact with the drum at all to eliminate the drum as a source of vibration.

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90
There is nothing wrong with using the handbrake while moving. It is there as an emergency brake. It should act smoothly. Try adjusting it and see where that goes.
I remember reading in my manual that you should never pull on the e-break when moving, maybe they said to do it in an emergancy?
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  #6  
Old April 5th, 2005, 01:49 PM
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It is not an e-brake if you can't use it while moving. All my vehicles have had smotth hand brakes. No shuddering at all. They need proper adjustment. As you say oil could screw them up or a warped drum or worn shoes.
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Old April 5th, 2005, 01:54 PM
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Jim Cheney
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To quote TFM:

"A drum-type parking break, well protected from dirt and water, operates directly on the transfer gearbox rear output shaft and is designed for parking use only. When parking the vehicle on steep gradients, or on slipery surfaces, the differential lock must also be engaged to ensure maximum effect. The brake is applied by pulling back the lever. To release the brake, pull the lever slightly back, depress and hold the release button while pushing the lever down to the limit of its travel."

It then goes on to say in bold print:

WARNING: Do not apply the parking brake while the vehicle is in motion as this could result in loss of vehicle control and damage to the transmission.

Now of course, crashing into a stationary object because the manual said not to apply the parking brake while in motion might be silly. You have to do a split second cost-benefit analysis as to whether the body damage and potential liability would be greater than the cost of replacing drive-train parts.
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Old April 5th, 2005, 01:54 PM
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John B.
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2000MY Manual

You are right, see page 65

That is scary. Anyway, the handbrake does work fine when moving.
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  #9  
Old April 5th, 2005, 02:01 PM
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Robert Ragland
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After reading your reply, Mike, I went and grabbed my manual, and opened up my pdf copy of the '96 service manual (courtesy of the Estonian Land Rover Club). Like you, I think the first step would be to loosen the brake adjustment bolt to where there is no longer any catch when pulling the handle.

As for whether or not to use the brake, I see that same warning, and it would a bad idea to use this with any frequency on a non-emergency basis when moving if the truck will shutter like that. That said, I think emergency brakes using the rear brakes carry that same warning about loss of control. I wonder, though, if the truck sounded so bad when new.
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Old April 5th, 2005, 02:30 PM
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OK 1 more story I pulled over on the highway quick once because the handle to the highlift on the front bumper came loose and was dangling from 1 end. I was moving at about 10-20 mph and I yanked the hand break,my foot was still on the break peddle, the rear tires instantly locked up and the truck skidded sideways and the rear went off the edge of the road, not the best emergency maneuver I have pulled off, and I don't recommend it, but I do have to say it was fun.
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  #11  
Old April 7th, 2005, 07:09 PM
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You are far more likely to destroy the rear half shafts and diff if you pull the transmission brake on while you are moving than damage the transfer box as long as the diff lock isn't engaged. In a real emergency like loss of foot brakes then I'd try the transmission brake but hold the ratchet button down so it couldn't lock on. be aware that you could bust the half shaft/diff though.

Follow-up Post:

As for the judder my money would be on worn shoes or more likely if you offroad the adjuster and associated mechanisms partially seized due to dirt. strip it all down clean and lube check for oil on the brake shoes and rebuild is the best solution. Mud continually gets into the 90's transmission brake, it's a twice a year job rebuilding it, usually because it's jammed on between off road forays and the truck won't move off the drive next time I want to go out
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