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  #1  
Old September 3rd, 2009, 10:34 AM
JKC
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John
1997 D-90
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Electrical starting problem

First a little background, I have a 97 softtop and my water pump just blew as I pulled into a parking lot. I was able to find a new repalcement and get it swapped but only had a 5 gallon bucket to fill the antifreeze container with water. Needless to say water spilled in and all around the antifreeze container. The car started just fine. Then 60 sec later it shut off and I heard a clicking sound. Everytime I turn the key the clicking sound starts and the engine will not turn over. The sound is coming from the passenger footwell. There is a plastic cover attached to the A/C with three relays behind it. It is the middle relay that is clicking. Also in the engine compartment clicking can be heard as well. I beleive it is coming from the evap pump b/c you can feel it shaking when the clicking sound is heard. Can anyone help me with this. I have disconnected all the electrical connections around the antifreeze container and checked them for water (found none) and then reconnected them. I got the car to start, drove it around and then this morning the same problem occured and no matter what I do it won't start - just repeated clicking. Thanks -John
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  #2  
Old September 4th, 2009, 08:08 AM
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Charles Galpin
'94 D90 ST, '63 SeriesIIA
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John, I am surprised you haven't had any responses. Maybe everyone is burned out from my problems

This sounds very familiar to the symptoms I had recently, but I honestly don't know what actually fixed it (but I do believe it's fixed now). You don't want to replace all the things I did if you can help it though

I'd start with the cheap and obvious -

1. Check for moisture anywhere arounf the electrical components, including the ECU. Not just near the coolant tank.
2. get new relays. You need the genuine silver ones or if you go with the plastic ones, make sure it's a 5 pin with double poles actuated.

See if that doesn't solve it and go from there.

If it's anything like a 94, you want to check your oil level. If it has risen or smells of fuel, I suggest changing it before running the engine much.

hth
charles
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  #3  
Old September 4th, 2009, 11:20 AM
JKC
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John
1997 D-90
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Charles, thanks for the reply. I have checked all connections in that area of the engine compartment including the ecu and large relay behind it. All were clean and dry. Also have just changed the oil so that is ok.

Yesterday I swapped two of the air conditioning relays (passenger footwell) around as they are exactly the same. The clicking continued and moved with the swap so now it was the front relay clicking. So I'm not sure if its faulty relays or more likey has to do with that set of wires going into the relay. But, then after 15 sec. after the swap it stopped - no more clicking. Car started and ran last night. Hopefully it will do the same today. Is it worth still changing the a/c relays?

Thanks - John
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  #4  
Old September 4th, 2009, 11:24 AM
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Charles Galpin
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I don't think the A/C relays are the same. Really, as crazy as it sounds, you want to get the expensive genuine ones. Where is this clicking up front?
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  #5  
Old September 6th, 2009, 05:56 PM
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John
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Charles, so far no luck. Car will not start. On the 97 model their are 3 identical relays located on the lower unit of the a/c housing in the passenger footwell. It is the center relay that is clicking. When I swap the wires around the clicking follows the same group of wires making whatever relay I connect them to click. Does anyone have a wiring diagram for a d-90? I'm at a loss at what to do.
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  #6  
Old September 6th, 2009, 06:29 PM
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Scott
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I have the complete wiring manual for the 97's... I will not be home until late tomorrow night, Tuesday, I can scan them and email them to you, if you want to PM me your email address.
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  #7  
Old September 6th, 2009, 11:10 PM
JKC
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John
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Scott, thank you so much. I'll pm you now.

By the way, does anyone know of a good, reliable Rover mechanic that they trust in South Florida (Miami area). Just in case I can't solve this problem myself!
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  #8  
Old September 7th, 2009, 04:28 PM
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John
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3 different clicking sounds

So after another 3 hours of trying to fix the problem no luck .I have checked every electrical connection and they all seems ok. Just to reiterate what is happening. I turn the key to the point where the starter should engage and I get three distinct clicking sounds
1) center relay on a/c in the lower footwell of the passenger compartment
2) Purge control valve is clicking, located next to the evap canister
3) 3rd clicking sound is coming from right under the rocker panel - seems like the sound is inside as I've checked all around it and disconnected everything but can't get it to stop.

So any ideas what would make these three things click (and not let the engine start)?
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  #9  
Old September 7th, 2009, 06:36 PM
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Chris Hinkle
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This is why I have grown to love diesel engines I am not sure I would spend all my time on the a/c - check main fuses in the engine compartment, check the fuses at the center console, check the battery charge, look for water around the computer(but I doubt that's the problem). Some of the wiring harness plugs together down below the overflow/heater area, maybe water got into one of those connectors? Having waded these things in deep water and washed the inside of the engine bay occasionally, I find it hard to believe water crept into a connection and shut the engine down.
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  #10  
Old September 7th, 2009, 07:50 PM
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John
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Chris, thanks for the reply.
-I did check every fuse in both the engine compartment and in the center console
-have taken the computer (ecu) and relays out and checked them - no water at all
-Battery was fine but is now a bit low due to all the attempted starts
-And have checked every connection I could find in the engine bay.

still no start, just clicking!

Anything else you can think of. Thanks - John
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  #11  
Old September 7th, 2009, 08:05 PM
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Charles Galpin
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John, I don't know how different the 97 is from the 94, but you need to determine which relays are which, and then why it's clicking. On a 94 when you turn the ignition on you will hear 2 relay clicks. First the main relay, then the fuel pump relay.

When you turn the key into the run position you should hear the fuel pump run for a few seconds. If you don't, then you need a new relay. Swap relays etc to figure out which one it is. If you do hear it run, pull a relay and see if it stops - then at least you'll know which relay it is. Is this the one clicking?

I think you need to figure out the relay clicking before going further, but at some point you'll need to check for park and fuel at the engine as well. In my case all that trying to start caused the engine to flood and fuel actually dripped down into the cylinders (then into the oil) so you might want to disconnect the fuel rail at some point anyway until you figure out the clicking.

charles
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  #12  
Old September 7th, 2009, 09:50 PM
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Chris Hinkle
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from what I understand, the engine is not turning over? Fuel and spark don't matter if it is just clicking.
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  #13  
Old September 8th, 2009, 07:32 AM
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Charles Galpin
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Yeah missed that sorry. But figuring out the relays is still step 1, and I still think he should just buy some new genuine relays as it's good maintenance at worst.
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  #14  
Old September 8th, 2009, 08:48 AM
JKC
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John
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That's correct, the engine is not turning over at all. I just get continuous clicking from the 3 locations mentioned above. Unfortunately I think the 94 and 97 are wired a bit differently. Or at least have different locations for the wiring/relays.

Again the clicking is coming from 3 spots.
1)Middle relay of 3 which are identical in lower passenger footwell - hs something to do with the a/c
2)Purge control valve next to the evap canister
3)In the middle of the engine somewhere - no accesible without taking things apart.

???
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  #15  
Old September 8th, 2009, 09:20 AM
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Chris Hinkle
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I wonder if the coil-pack or whatever it's called got water into it? Don't know if blowing off with compressed air or WD40 would solve it. Been a while since I had a 97, but it is up there at back of the engine.
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