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  #1  
Old June 24th, 2016, 07:33 PM
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Electrical Problems

OK, so I've worked on this issue for over 10 hours, and have not got anywhere with it.

Put 300Tdi and R380 into 1988 110.
The old wiring harness is being used for simplicity, for compatibility with rest of truck.

In my mind, before putting the dash back together and all the body pieces back on, I want to make sure the electrical is up and working so I don't have to pull any actual body or dash parts back apart later on.

So I spent a few hours attaching everything and putting it all back together, but only via the actual wires, no dash or wings in place. The grounds were attached to where they belong, or directly to the battery via temporary line.

Nothing worked.

So I pulled it all back apart. Checked connections, grounds, etc...

Put it all back together.

No life at all. Nothing gets power when I turn the key to any position.

Everything tests fine on its own. The ignition is working as intended. But when I go through the actual wiring harness (which has not been changed since I pulled it) 100% failure of everything. No power anywhere even though power is at the ignition, and going through the ignition.

I don't know what else to do.
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  #2  
Old June 24th, 2016, 07:36 PM
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All the ground straps for the engine connected? Battery to frame strap connected?
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Old June 24th, 2016, 07:43 PM
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Yes. And all new.

Engine runs. The ignition will start the engine.
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  #4  
Old June 24th, 2016, 07:49 PM
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Accessory power comes from two connections on the ignition switch. Is there power there? Follow the lines from there.
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Old June 24th, 2016, 09:21 PM
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Yes, there is power at the switch to the accessories, but.... nothing happens.

Admittedly, I am no good at electrical things. If this were up and running, I'd have no trouble finding faults, or making new circuits, or setting up a dual battery -- all stuff I've done before. But with it just completely dead, I don't even know where to begin.

As it sits, I've basically untangled the entire harness to try to track down what is missing.

Let me see if I can explain where I think the problem might be, even though I've tried to fix it here with no success: I have one white/red wire that was clipped and left by the previous owner. This is between the ignition/dash and the fuses. I also have the red/white ignition wire (key to relay) that was spliced into with a "secret" kill switch added. These two wires are not meant to be together though. The kill switch wire was not clipped from the dead end red/white, even though it may seem that way, close inspection shows they are different wires.

The other option is I think the transition from V8 to Tdi may be the problem. The bundle of wires that runs from the RD side of the bulkhead to the senders, alternator, and starter may be not getting the signal the harness thinks it needs to come alive. But I can't figure out what wire goes where with the new set up. The engine and alternator and starter are all running off of a new set of cables that go directly to the battery, and I can start the engine basically by hot-wire directly from starter switch. This was meant to be temporary.
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Old June 25th, 2016, 10:27 PM
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I just had a fresh set of eyes on this problem, and we could not figure it out together.

On about 15 hours of work on this one issue now.

Where does the power to the fuses come from? The wires that connect any of the two ends of a fuse loop into the fuse box, but where does the power to the hot side wire come from?
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  #7  
Old June 26th, 2016, 08:39 AM
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I thought it came from the large white wire on the ignition switch? Mine is 200tdi in a early truck
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Old June 26th, 2016, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RBBailey View Post
I just had a fresh set of eyes on this problem, and we could not figure it out together.

On about 15 hours of work on this one issue now.

Where does the power to the fuses come from? The wires that connect any of the two ends of a fuse loop into the fuse box, but where does the power to the hot side wire come from?
Power to everything on the truck is taken via the brown wires (brown wires on a rover=unfused power) off the positive lug of the starter, regardless of which engine is installed.
Do you have a wiring diagram for the model year you are using a wiring harness from ?
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  #9  
Old June 26th, 2016, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Douglas View Post
Power to everything on the truck is taken via the brown wires (brown wires on a rover=unfused power)
^^^^THIS^^^^, and 9/10 times it is the ground wire that is the bloody issue...I clean and reconnect, wire wheel all grounds on all my trucks.
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Old June 27th, 2016, 12:44 AM
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OK so with the help of Ryan Phelps, I actually got it working this evening.

Basically, it is as I suspected, as all you said, but needed the eye of someone who could read a diagram, and figure out that this wire and that wire also needed to be connected. Basically, a combination of wires that make sense once you see it, but would have been a massive guessing game.

Once I got it going, the ignition switch broke! And some other questions came up:
  1. Should I leave the in-tank fuel pump in?
  2. If left in, Should I leave it plugged in, or not?
I think (hope) that I can now begin to put the thing back together.

OH... and after all that... now the engine won't start.......
Fuel solenoid comes on, starter rolls, but engine won't start. For the past month, that has been the only thing that was a constant -- the engine always starts instantly. I'm baffled.
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  #11  
Old July 18th, 2016, 01:00 PM
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OK, after being out of country, I'm finally getting back on this project. Ryan helped me get it working right, but as I am now trying to make the V8 harness work with the 300tdi, I made a kindergartener level diagram of how it goes, and this has made me think of a few questions.

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See question below:
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  #12  
Old July 18th, 2016, 01:06 PM
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See diagram in post above.

NOTE: The green sender wires are not actually green, those are the factory V8 sender wires of multiple colors. Also, the "plugs" are the factory plugs that are up on the right hand bulkhead. The blue wire is my add-on to get to the starter solenoid. (As shown with the baby circle on top of the papa circle.)

OK, so the dotted circle that says "join" is where there are three connection points in this harness. Originally they went to the starter, the large brown wire from the alternator also came there.

We were thinking that by joining these three together, we get power into the harness through both plugs at the end. But this means all the power for accessories is running straight from the alternator. Originally, they were also connected to the battery, via the starter.

Is this going to be a problem?

It seems to work right, with key turns, etc... but.... Once I get it all back together, I wonder....
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  #13  
Old July 18th, 2016, 07:24 PM
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The WR (White Red) wire was to go to the starter. On newer trucks it is a NR (brown red) As Doug mentioned the two large brown wires go to the starter lug. In the newer trucks these are fused unlike the older trucks. You can pull up a complete wire diagram on the web. What harness /motor did you start with.
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Old July 18th, 2016, 07:40 PM
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It is from a 1988 V8.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Milks View Post
The WR (White Red) wire was to go to the starter. On newer trucks it is a NR (brown red)
There is no W/R wire, I have a small NR wire that goes to the starter. This is in position with the three large brown wires that also go to the starter.

Quote:
As Doug mentioned the two large brown wires go to the starter lug. In the newer trucks these are fused unlike the older trucks. You can pull up a complete wire diagram on the web. What harness /motor did you start with.
The problem is the starter lugs are already taken: One side to battery, one side to alternator, the battery side also has a brown/red (large) wire that goes up to the center bulkhead. I can't figure how why this wire does not send power to the relays, it is original to the harness, and it goes right into the bundle on the bulkhead.

Without this harness, I get no power to the main set of lights, instruments, interior lights, etc...

The question really comes down to whether the power to the plugs (see diagram) should come from the alternator only, or should it get power from the switched side of the starter?
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Old July 18th, 2016, 07:42 PM
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[QUOTE=RBBailey;754647]OK, after being out of country, I'm finally getting back on this project. Ryan helped me get it working right, but as I am now trying to make the V8 harness work with the 300tdi, I made a kindergartener level diagram of how it goes, and this has made me think of a few questions.

[you should consider buying wiring from Brittish wiring.com
They have the correct colored wires to be used for each leg.
But you first have to be able to read a wiring diagram & have the correct diagram for the vehicle.
A Defender shop manual is real helpful or find it online, not sure where.

I do not like wiring But if you spend time discovering what color wire goes where it makes it all a lot easier than working in the dark.
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  #16  
Old July 18th, 2016, 07:58 PM
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Diagram

Here is an older V8 diagram
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Old July 18th, 2016, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RBBailey View Post
OK, so I've worked on this issue for over 10 hours, and have not got anywhere with it. Put 300Tdi and R380 into 1988 110. The old wiring harness is being used for simplicity, for compatibility with rest of truck. In my mind, before putting the dash back together and all the body pieces back on, I want to make sure the electrical is up and working so I don't have to pull any actual body or dash parts back apart later on. So I spent a few hours attaching everything and putting it all back together, but only via the actual wires, no dash or wings in place. The grounds were attached to where they belong, or directly to the battery via temporary line. Nothing worked. So I pulled it all back apart. Checked connections, grounds, etc... Put it all back together. No life at all. Nothing gets power when I turn the key to any position. Everything tests fine on its own. The ignition is working as intended. But when I go through the actual wiring harness (which has not been changed since I pulled it) 100% failure of everything. No power anywhere even though power is at the ignition, and going through the ignition. I don't know what else to do.
If by plugs you mean Glow plugs they get power from the ALWAYS HOT side of the starter which is also where your battery cable should be landed, nothing connects direct to the alternator. I can help you out with the oe glow circuit wiring if you do not have the glow plug harness and intend to use the stock glow plug controller. I built my harness from scratch and it matches the oe harness.
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  #18  
Old July 18th, 2016, 08:32 PM
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Yes, I have this. And others. I'm not asking how to put it back to original, I'm asking if it is OK to get the power directly from the alternator without having the break in the circuit at the starter. Original harness, where it says "join" in my diagram, was connected to the starter at that point.

I'm really bad as asking questions, so I'm sorry if I'm confusing you.
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Old July 18th, 2016, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RovingRyan View Post
If by plugs you mean Glow plugs they get power from the ALWAYS HOT side of the starter which is also where your battery cable should be landed, nothing connects direct to the alternator. I can help you out with the oe glow circuit wiring if you do not have the glow plug harness and intend to use the stock glow plug controller. I built my harness from scratch and it matches the oe harness.
No, not talking about glow plugs, the diagram I drew above is the harness we were working on. the place where it is circled is the spot where we temporarily put a clamp on to join them together. Those would go directly to the starter in the V8. One is from bat., one goes to other side of starter solenoid, other goes to alternator. From the alternator to the plugs in the firewall, it is the same as original wiring. The only difference is I am skipping the starter as a stop off point in the middle.
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  #20  
Old July 18th, 2016, 08:53 PM
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Brown wires to the starter are a direct connection to the battery. Brown wires are a constant live. Connecting them to the alternator would create an extra path. It would probably work but may add resistance to the wires. Remember these are not fused. If it were me I would follow the factory paths.
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