electric driven ps pump ??? - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old July 15th, 2004, 06:58 PM
artm
Status: Offline
Arthur Maravelis
97 SW
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Boston, MA USA
Posts: 985
electric driven ps pump ???

This may sound stupid but what the heck...

is it practical to fit a battery driven ps pump? The thinking is obvious - to run a hydraulic winch off it. Even better, assuming the power requirement is met, would be to refit the existing pulley with a custom one having a clutch which can run off the battery when the engine's dead.

Seems that a motor running on several 10's of amps should do it instead of 100's for an electric winch.

Stupid???
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old July 15th, 2004, 07:54 PM
BarryO
Status: Offline
Barry O'Mahony
97 D-90 SW LE
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Bend, OR
Posts: 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by artm
Seems that a motor running on several 10's of amps should do it instead of 100's for an electric winch.
From a conservation of enargy perspective, I don't see how this would work. How could 10's of amps all of a sudden do the work of 100's a amps? The hydrp winch would have to run very much slower than the electric winch.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old July 15th, 2004, 09:28 PM
artm
Status: Offline
Arthur Maravelis
97 SW
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Boston, MA USA
Posts: 985
Well, as I see it...

1. much of the work of the electric winches is dissipated as heat due to the inefficiency of the system.

2. in a hydraulic setup you have the motor requiring about 2 amps, the engine running at idle - say 750 rpm - and driving the pump which does the majority of the work. That's the point of hydraulics. It generates much less heat which is easily dissipated, by the way, by the pump casing and the fluid.

So you can have a large amount of power driving an inefficient motor as in an electric setp or a small amount of electric power and a large amount of hydraulic power as in a hydraulic setup.

It seems possible to find a motor using 50 amps to run at 750rpm.

Of course, I could be wrong...but I hope not.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old July 16th, 2004, 12:14 AM
Roadsiderob's Avatar
Roadsiderob
Status: Offline
Robert Dassler
1994 D90
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Posts: 994
Art,
My day job involves working on forklifts...including electric models where they use electric motors to drive hydraulic pumps. As such, I am familiar with the size of electric motors required to drive even a small hydraulic pump. There are 2 problems with what you propose. First, the motors they use for this sort of thing are not small or light. I replaced an auxiliary pump motor yesterday and the motor weighed in at about 40 pounds and was 8 inches in diameter and 12 inches long. The power cables to these motors are the same as you would power an electric winch with. Secondly, 50ish amps may be realistic at 36volts or 48volts, but not at 12volts. I think that you would be looking at closer to 150-200amps.
There is no free lunch...until the Mr. Fusion becomes a reality.
Rob Dassler
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old July 16th, 2004, 01:47 AM
Buckon37s's Avatar
Buckon37s
Status: Offline
Buck
Re-Fendered 90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Temecula, CA, USA
Posts: 3,376
[QUOTE=artm]This may sound stupid but what the heck...QUOTE]

Your totally right, this does sound stupid But really, like Rob got into a little, it will not even come close to working for tons of reasons. And, all that work for a hydra winch would not be worth it even if you could bend Gods laws.
__________________
2009 King of the Hammers

BUCK Wild Racing
Driver: Me
Co-driver: Pat Quirk
Team 911

Rover Tracks
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSC
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DJ Safety
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
West Coast Rovers
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reel Driveline
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old July 16th, 2004, 02:24 AM
artm
Status: Offline
Arthur Maravelis
97 SW
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Boston, MA USA
Posts: 985
Check this out:

http://ca.autos.yahoo.com/030820/11/ugrz.html

"...TRW did make some systems in the early 80's, such as the Fiero that used an electric motor to drive the hydraulic power steering pump".

That sounds interesting! The research continues.

Follow-up Post:

More...


http://www.uccc.co.uk/when/hycwps.htm

" Electric Power Steering was first introduced in the mid 1970s"

http://www.classicperform.com/

"Electric Steering Pump"

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/disp...er=perSteering

"The Electro-Hydraulic Power Assist Steering (EHPAS) System retains the hydraulics but is instead driven from an electric pump, mechanically independent of the engine."


Perhaps not so stupid after all.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old July 16th, 2004, 08:23 AM
Mike Hippert's Avatar
Mike Hippert
Status: Offline
D-90Slut/Stalker,SNLPres
94 D-90 Grinding Rover
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Manchester NH USA
Posts: 4,789
Just a thought but how about a PTO driven pump off of the T-case?

http://www.4wdworld.com.au/products/...raulicunit.htm
__________________
Don't forget to
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
first then ask questions later! The loose nut behind the wheel
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old July 16th, 2004, 08:38 AM
artm
Status: Offline
Arthur Maravelis
97 SW
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Boston, MA USA
Posts: 985
The point is to run a winch without engine power. If this can be done with only 150A then why bother with an electric winch?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old July 16th, 2004, 09:14 AM
Mike Hippert's Avatar
Mike Hippert
Status: Offline
D-90Slut/Stalker,SNLPres
94 D-90 Grinding Rover
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Manchester NH USA
Posts: 4,789
Hmmm, if you could get it to work at 150 amps 2 or 3 batteries would be dead real fast. Heav you seen the size of the batteries used on a forklift. They are like 300 lbs, and they don't last that long either if you are running the pump allot. You guys know that MileMarker also make a winch that runs off a small engine?

http://www.winchesplus.com/selfcontainedwinch.htm
__________________
Don't forget to
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
first then ask questions later! The loose nut behind the wheel
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old July 16th, 2004, 01:16 PM
flippedrover's Avatar
flippedrover
Status: Offline
Tyler
'94 D-90
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ashburn,va
Posts: 3,125
Holy crap. Kind of cool in an overkill way too heavy way.
__________________
Can't you feel 'em circlin' (closin'in) honey?
Can't you feel 'em swimmin' around?
You got fins to the left, fins to the right,
and you're the only bait in town.
You got fins to the left, fins to the right,
and you're the only girl in town.

Jimmy Buffett


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old July 16th, 2004, 04:25 PM
evilfij's Avatar
evilfij
Status: Offline
evilfij
I have never seen a rover in person
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: on the internet
Posts: 14,688
Subarus had an electric P/S pump however the system will be less efficient that a pure electric system.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old July 16th, 2004, 08:27 PM
Buckon37s's Avatar
Buckon37s
Status: Offline
Buck
Re-Fendered 90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Temecula, CA, USA
Posts: 3,376
OKay, I've been giving this some thought and I know how you can make this work. Two words, Cold Fusion.....
__________________
2009 King of the Hammers

BUCK Wild Racing
Driver: Me
Co-driver: Pat Quirk
Team 911

Rover Tracks
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSC
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DJ Safety
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
West Coast Rovers
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reel Driveline
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old July 16th, 2004, 09:30 PM
artm
Status: Offline
Arthur Maravelis
97 SW
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Boston, MA USA
Posts: 985
I hoped that with a few amps the hydraulic part would be up to the task Doesn't look like it's possible so...

time to let go of the dream.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
fried fuel pump mattdh Defender Technical Discussions 2 July 13th, 2012 02:55 PM
Best way across the US Mike Hippert Defender Technical Discussions 173 April 29th, 2010 04:56 PM
Diagnosing Fuel Pump Issues hutch Defender Technical Discussions 40 May 21st, 2009 09:04 PM
Fuel Pump Fuse Blows all the Time now! thug1313 Defender Technical Discussions 9 March 2nd, 2006 07:55 PM
Rats! Now my D90 won't start. No power to fuel pump jcasteel Defender Technical Discussions 8 March 15th, 2005 09:42 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:07 PM.


Copyright