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  #21  
Old February 12th, 2014, 06:18 PM
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The local shop had no issue tapping metric but I did have to purchase the die which was a buck or so.
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  #22  
Old February 12th, 2014, 06:20 PM
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While they are not Land Rovers, on aircraft we always put the EGT within 2" of the exhaust flange, beyond that they are of dubious value. I have put in scores of them and do them on every piston aircraft I have ever owned. We simply drill a tight hole that corresponds to the probe size. They are installed on a adel clamp with a malleable washer and the clamp is tightened in place. We run them 5 hours and re-tighten the clamp for thermal setting. We are running much higher EGT's and back pressure on the turbos, since we run 65-80% power continuously, like 350hp on my Chieftain' TSIO540. Aside from checking the clamp every 100 hours, they are trouble free and the manifolds do not crack or leak on this style installation as there is no expansive pressure on the mounting hole. We also mount them so the thermocouple ends up mid stream, perpendicular to the flow.
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  #23  
Old June 16th, 2014, 11:17 PM
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I was going to simply tap the blanking plate and thread the pyrometer adapter right to it, but after looking at the angle of the plate and the direction that the probe should face, I welded the bung in at an angle to accept the probe at what I'd guess is parallel to the ground.
Still, I feel as though the tip of the pyrometer should be further in, what do you think?

I'm thinking of finding a longer probe. First test yielded EGT temp of 450 F by stationary revving.
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  #24  
Old June 16th, 2014, 11:25 PM
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The other thing I noted is that in the VDO instructions, it said "do not cut sending wires", which I'm assuming means don't cut the 9" braided stainless steel covered wires coming out of the probe. While not cutting the braided stainless steel covered section seems obvious, I don't see why they would give you 10' of wires if they didn't want them to be cut.

The probe is connected to the 2-wire harness via terminal studs and the wire that is meant to connect to the gauge itself was 10' long (which had to be trimmed to 4') so I hope that there is no specified resistance over a specified length of wire that would compromise the signal. Just wondering what they meant by "don't cut the sending wires".

Regardless, I still think the probe should be about 1" further into the manifold. Any thoughts?
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  #25  
Old June 16th, 2014, 11:37 PM
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I'm planning using a type K pyrometer from Auber Instruments:

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?ma...roducts_id=182

I believe that the probe is slightly longer. I'm going to take the same approach with the bung. Did you slice the bung at an angle and weld it on, or did you machine an angled hole into the blanking plate?
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  #26  
Old June 16th, 2014, 11:43 PM
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The Auber probe doesn't look all that much longer than what I have but I'd want a real measurement before I order.

Yes, I drilled/machined the hole in the plate at an angle rather than cut the bung at an angle (hadn't thought of that actually) but since the bung has threads I'd try not to cut the bung, just do it the way I did.
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  #27  
Old June 16th, 2014, 11:52 PM
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About 2.5".

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  #28  
Old June 16th, 2014, 11:54 PM
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Thanks Chris, that's actually pretty good. What is the fitting thread type and size?
It will now need to fit the existing bung or adapter already installed.
Compatible with the VDO series EGR gauge?
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  #29  
Old June 17th, 2014, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie Treehorn View Post
Thanks Chris, that's actually pretty good. What is the fitting thread type and size?
It will now need to fit the existing bung or adapter already installed.
Compatible with the VDO series EGR gauge?
Scroll up and see.

http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...1&postcount=20
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  #30  
Old June 17th, 2014, 02:14 PM
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Chris, I saw that chart. I just spoke to a rep at e-gauges who says that any "TYpe K" thermocoupling will work with the VDO gauge.

However, I also asked about the sensor (probe) wires needing to remain unaltered and since those have a resistance value built in, I'm a little hesitant about ordering the Auber probe you have because it comes with 3 meters of wire coming off the probe. Or did I misunderstand the specs? That's really my only hangup at this point. Installing any type of "K" thermocoupling with a 1/8" NPT fitting will take 5 minutes.

I've got everything together and took it for a few mile test run and I'm not seeing temps above 500F even under heavy load. That suggests that I'm not getting a full reading because the probe tip is probably about 1" outside of the true flow. I think I measured about 3" from the outer surface of the EGR blanking plate to the back of the manifold closest to the head (where the probe would "bottom out" on the casting. So 2.25" - 2.50" should get me right in the center of the flow as the gasses exit downward towards the turbo. Right now, as you can see in the picture, it's about 1" into the chamber/manifold.
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  #31  
Old June 17th, 2014, 02:18 PM
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Yep, the 3m of wire is ridiculous. I wrapped mine up in a coil and zip-tied it to other shit on the bulkhead. I did cut off the cheesy terminals on the end of it and put proper insulated spade terminals for my VDO gauge. I took maybe 1-2cm off the wire so I don't think it will affect the operation by much.

I do know that JSQ runs that same probe you're running and supposedly gets accurate readings. Still, the Auber probe is cheap so you might as well try it out and see if it reports the same.
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  #32  
Old June 17th, 2014, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie Treehorn View Post
Chris, I saw that chart. I just spoke to a rep at e-gauges who says that any "TYpe K" thermocoupling will work with the VDO gauge.

However, I also asked about the sensor (probe) wires needing to remain unaltered and since those have a resistance value built in, I'm a little hesitant about ordering the Auber probe you have because it comes with 3 meters of wire coming off the probe. Or did I misunderstand the specs? That's really my only hangup at this point. Installing any type of "K" thermocoupling with a 1/8" NPT fitting will take 5 minutes.

I've got everything together and took it for a few mile test run and I'm not seeing temps above 500F even under heavy load. That suggests that I'm not getting a full reading because the probe tip is probably about 1" outside of the true flow. I think I measured about 3" from the outer surface of the EGR blanking plate to the back of the manifold closest to the head (where the probe would "bottom out" on the casting. So 2.25" - 2.50" should get me right in the center of the flow as the gasses exit downward towards the turbo. Right now, as you can see in the picture, it's about 1" into the chamber/manifold.
If your probe is installed as per the attached picture that is absolutely correct/perfect. Only getting 500 degree's is indicative of how lean your pump is adjusted. Heavy load being defined as prolonged accel pedal to the floor in 5th gear on an uphill grade with the engine slightly lugging.
Typically engines with stock settings have trouble even getting to 800 degree's.

The gauge brings to light how retarded timing and IP settings are on these engines and how much potential there is in simply tuning the engine.
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  #33  
Old June 17th, 2014, 02:32 PM
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I also see that they offer "exposed" and "Sealed" tip probes. I don't suppose the EGTs get high enough to melt or damage an exposed probe, but the one that came in the VDO kit definitely looks "sealed" because the diameter is bigger and the reading is definitely not instantaneous. Not that I'm worried about instant readings.

Anyway, this extended tip one is different than the link you had posted above. THinking this may be the ticket for my application.

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?ma...roducts_id=145

------ Follow up post added June 17th, 2014 02:34 PM ------

Quote:
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If your probe is installed as per the attached picture that is absolutely correct/perfect. Only getting 500 degree's is indicative of how lean your pump is adjusted.
That's far enough in?
when I was looking around in there, the flow to the turbo appears to be further in about an inch.

I just need another inch (or so I always thought)
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  #34  
Old June 17th, 2014, 09:25 PM
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If your probe is installed as per the attached picture that is absolutely correct/perfect. Only getting 500 degree's is indicative of how lean your pump is adjusted. Heavy load being defined as prolonged accel pedal to the floor in 5th gear on an uphill grade with the engine slightly lugging.
Typically engines with stock settings have trouble even getting to 800 degree's.

The gauge brings to light how retarded timing and IP settings are on these engines and how much potential there is in simply tuning the engine.
So, this may break off into a different thread, but you raised the question.
I'm doing all this work now (including a new timing belt) and though I plan on having somebody with more experience than me tune the injector pump settings, is there something I should consider while replacing the timing belt? I mean should I be considering advancing the timing of the IP slightly while I'm in there? Or is that something that should not be considered. (I.E. See where the fueling changes get you first, then consider timing changes)
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  #35  
Old June 17th, 2014, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Jackie Treehorn View Post
So, this may break off into a different thread, but you raised the question.
I'm doing all this work now (including a new timing belt) and though I plan on having somebody with more experience than me tune the injector pump settings, is there something I should consider while replacing the timing belt? I mean should I be considering advancing the timing of the IP slightly while I'm in there? Or is that something that should not be considered. (I.E. See where the fueling changes get you first, then consider timing changes)
There is a ton of youtube video on tuning a VE pump injection pump, 89-93 Dodge Rams Cummins had those injection pumps, lots instructions out there on how to do it.
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  #36  
Old June 17th, 2014, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Jackie Treehorn View Post
So, this may break off into a different thread, but you raised the question.
I'm doing all this work now (including a new timing belt) and though I plan on having somebody with more experience than me tune the injector pump settings, is there something I should consider while replacing the timing belt? I mean should I be considering advancing the timing of the IP slightly while I'm in there? Or is that something that should not be considered. (I.E. See where the fueling changes get you first, then consider timing changes)
I usually advance the pump after the engine is back together,ie after belt has been changed and engine is running. There is a plug on the back of the pump and a dial micrometer is used to set the lift. Timing is advanced via the small plate on the front timing cover.
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  #37  
Old June 17th, 2014, 11:23 PM
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Yep, I've just enjoyed about 3 Youtube videos that explain the timing procedure and I think that I'll just do the belt based on OEM specs and when the fuel settings are tuned later, they can play with the IP timing with the cover in place. Now I understand why there is that round cover held on with three bolts in front of the IP pulley.
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  #38  
Old June 18th, 2014, 01:50 AM
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My Tdi is 100% factory, less turning DOWN the fuel 1/8 of a turn, because I live at 4500' elevation. Stock size tires (31.5"), stock trany (Zf auto), stock 1.2 LT230Q transfer case. I have 142K on the engine now. My Westach EGT probe length is 2.5" mounted as per the picture in post #30 above. My EGT's run as high as 1200 on a steep grade in 3rd going about 45-50 mph. On a flat road doing 2200rpm's (about 63mph) with little or no head wind, the EGT's run about 800, again at 63mph. With a good stiff tail wind they'll be about 650. With a 30mph head wind, struggling to maintain 60mph, my EGT's will be 1100.

I've been driving diesels since 1981 and ALL have had EGT & boost guages
The probe in post #30 is NOT long enough to get correct readings. It is essential that the probe be midway in the exhaust stream.
The temp's stated in post #32 are way too low to be accurate.
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Old June 18th, 2014, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Dennis View Post
My Tdi is 100% factory, less turning DOWN the fuel 1/8 of a turn, because I live at 4500' elevation. Stock size tires (31.5"), stock trany (Zf auto), stock 1.2 LT230Q transfer case. I have 142K on the engine now. My Westach EGT probe length is 2.5" mounted as per the picture in post #30 above. My EGT's run as high as 1200 on a steep grade in 3rd going about 45-50 mph. On a flat road doing 2200rpm's (about 63mph) with little or no head wind, the EGT's run about 800, again at 63mph. With a good stiff tail wind they'll be about 650. With a 30mph head wind, struggling to maintain 60mph, my EGT's will be 1100.

I've been driving diesels since 1981 and ALL have had EGT & boost guages
The probe in post #30 is NOT long enough to get correct readings. It is essential that the probe be midway in the exhaust stream.
The temp's stated in post #32 are way too low to be accurate.
Thanks! That's good to know.
Sorta what I thought with regards to the probe length. Not hard to swap out for a longer probe now that the gauge, harness and bung are all installed, so I guess I now will order one of those longer probes.
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  #40  
Old June 18th, 2014, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Dennis View Post
My Tdi is 100% factory, less turning DOWN the fuel 1/8 of a turn, because I live at 4500' elevation. Stock size tires (31.5"), stock trany (Zf auto), stock 1.2 LT230Q transfer case. I have 142K on the engine now. My Westach EGT probe length is 2.5" mounted as per the picture in post #30 above. My EGT's run as high as 1200 on a steep grade in 3rd going about 45-50 mph. On a flat road doing 2200rpm's (about 63mph) with little or no head wind, the EGT's run about 800, again at 63mph. With a good stiff tail wind they'll be about 650. With a 30mph head wind, struggling to maintain 60mph, my EGT's will be 1100.

I've been driving diesels since 1981 and ALL have had EGT & boost guages
The probe in post #30 is NOT long enough to get correct readings. It is essential that the probe be midway in the exhaust stream.
The temp's stated in post #32 are way too low to be accurate.
Dennis a 300tdi,zf, and 1.2 tcase was stock setup for a disco 1 with a 245/70/16 tire, ie a 29 inch tire. your auto setup with tall gearing @ elevation is going to see much higher egt's than a manual truck @ sea level.
Jackie Treehorn lives on the Atlantic coast.
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