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  #1  
Old December 25th, 2004, 05:40 AM
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Dual Batts and HO Alternator

I want to instal dual batteries and a 160+amp alternator.

Is there a dual batt kit that you can recommend? Price?

Is there an alternator (straight bolt in installation) that you can recommend? Price?

Thanks.
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  #2  
Old December 25th, 2004, 10:07 AM
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What are you looking to accomplish with the dual battery set-up? If you just want 2 batteries to double your capacity then you can just get 2 yellow top Optimas and wire them in parallel. If you are looking to have one for your starter and another as an auxilary or to run accessories, then you need a managment system. Atlanticbritish.com sells a managment system.
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Old December 25th, 2004, 01:32 PM
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Yellow Top altimas are not meant for starting applications, there not even recommended for gas motors, and they are not a very good battery. Go with something else. And like David said. Wiring them in parallel is fine, just use some beefy wires. I used welding cable.
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  #4  
Old December 26th, 2004, 01:09 PM
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That is not true. Read Optima's website. Yellow tops are meant to me used for starting and deep cycle. They are a better battery than the red tops for all applications. If you are ever going to load the battery beyond the alternator supply capability, the Yellow top makes the most sense.

http://www.optimabatteries.com/publi...eep_cycle.html

"Dual Purpose (Starting and Deep Cycle) Batteries for Professional Use"

FAQ on this subject

A cheaper and just as good option is the Exide Orbital Marine Starting/Deep Cycle battery or the Exide Select Orbital XCD. They should be very similar to a Marine Deep Cycle Optima or Yellow Top, but cheaper.
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Old December 26th, 2004, 03:11 PM
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Wronge,

Read Optima's insert that comes with the battery. You can write anything on a website but if you put it on the instructions that come with the battery you can get sued. It says for:

YELLOW TOP
Racing vehicles with no charging system
Diesel Vehicles
Car Audio
Electric Vehicles
Recreational vehicles with Refrigerators or the like
Heavy Equipment with Hydrolics

RED TOP:
Auto Starting
Rec vehicles with underhood starting applications
Heavy Equipment where starting is the main application

They are absolutely NOT a better battery for all applications. If you are looking for a starter battery the Red top is a better battery. I know this fry's a few people who think more expensive is better but this is what Optima says on the instructions for the battery. And, all Optimas SUCK. I have had 6 of them. They SUCK. It is the "in" thing right now but there are two kinds of Optimas, ones that have crapped out and ones that will. I have a yellow top now only because they keep honoring the warranty. I am not saying any of this because I have a red top and want it to be better. There is just a lot of misinformation running around and people think the yellow top is perdy. Don't get it unless you have a Diesel, a refrigerator, or no alternator.

P.S. Deep cycle batteries require to be drawn down occasionally to set the memory of the power. If you hook one up to a perfect electrical system and drive it every day it will actually contribute to the battery failing. Now lets here all the people - "I have one and have no problems yet!" Your lucky.
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  #6  
Old December 26th, 2004, 03:59 PM
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Dave, not to start an argument (I have had a yellow top die after 3 months and replaced under warranty but I really abused it) but, Lets look at what you have there;

Yellow Top,
Racing vehicles with no charging system = so start the gas engine then keep all the electrical running without being recharged for some time
Diesel Vehicles = Run glow plugs to warm the engine up, then long cranking to get it started much harder then a gas engine as Diesels have higher compression and most of the ones I have used require longer cranking then a gas engine to get running
Car Audio = Start a gas engine, then keep up with a demanding audio system that the alt cannot keep up with
Electric Vehicles = No charge for a short time and under a heavy load
Recreational vehicles with Refrigerators or the like = run low current for a long time
Heavy Equipment with Hydraulics = run electric motors turning hydraulic pumps so they have to make up for what a charging system cannot keep up with or when there is no charging system at all

Red Top
Auto Starting = Starting gas engines then being recharged
Rec vehicles with under hood starting applications = Starting an engine then being recharged
Heavy Equipment where starting is the main application = Starting an engine then being recharged

I really don't think any manufacture would falsely advertise their product when they sold something that is more capable. The yellow top is a deep cycle battery made for starting applications. Sure they can fail just like anything else, but I know people who have been running the same yellow top for longer then my Defender has been around. Under the right circum stances anything will fail, and you could buy 2 or 3 regular batteries for the price of 1 yellow top. But that same yellow top that sits in my 90 right now has started commercial diesel engines that are normally started with batteries twice its size, and it has saved me more then once, so I think Iíll be keeping mine.
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  #7  
Old December 26th, 2004, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckon37s
P.S. Deep cycle batteries require to be drawn down occasionally to set the memory of the power. If you hook one up to a perfect electrical system and drive it every day it will actually contribute to the battery failing. Now lets here all the people - "I have one and have no problems yet!" Your lucky.
OK, yell all you want. But you obviously need to learn a bit about batteries. Go do some reading. Lead-acid batteries do not have memory. People believe Nickel-Cadmium typically do, but it is a bit misleading. Alead acid battery has a fixed usage life. The more it is kept at proper charge the longer it lasts.

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#2

I am not saying Optimas are the cats ass. Personally, I have never seen one fail, but have heard lots of internet stories. The one Optima that I owned is still fine after seven years. I think a lot of people kill batteries because of problems in the charging system such as a leaky diode. This was the case with my Disco. After it went through two batteries and a variety of electrical failures, the charge light started coming on. I'm pretty sure the recitifier was the root cause of all the problems from the start.

Like I said, get an Exide Orbital Select XCD. Much cheaper, same basic design.

As Mike says, the Yellow top is designed as a starting battery that deep cycles. That is why they recomend them for the applications noted in your post.
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  #8  
Old December 26th, 2004, 05:09 PM
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On my Tdi I run two generic 850CA batts in parallel. Cheaper than any Optima setup and more juice. For me, the only reason to consider a deep cycle job is for winching but I would bet my setup's better even for that.
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  #9  
Old December 26th, 2004, 05:17 PM
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In a diesel, in the cold, there is a good reason for separate dual batteries.

You can glow as much as you want and still have full power for starting. Basically one battery is connected to the starter only and the other to everything else including the winch. There is zero need for a battery with more cranking amps than are vailable in stock size. The starter won't use it anyway. I've started my 2.5NA in -30C after glowing for a minute on the one old mystery brand battery with a rating of 450 CCA.
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Old December 26th, 2004, 09:40 PM
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Your all right, there not meant for what Optima recommends. Deep Cycle's never need to Deep Cycle. Have fun with that. For heaven sakes, spend 1/4 the cash and get a better battery.

So we all agree in this section then:

YELLOW TOP
Racing vehicles with no charging system
Diesel Vehicles
Car Audio
Electric Vehicles
Recreational vehicles with Refrigerators or the like
Heavy Equipment with Hydrolics

(By the way, it says just car audio, not starting applications)

So if your defender meets the catagories above, go ahead and buy the yellow top. You are just fooling yourself if you think that this is the best application for this. Look, a duct taped cooler will work as a life raft but you won's see them strapped to the deck of an aircraft carrier.

P.S. Memory was the easiest way I could describe this without going way into it. Deep Cycle batteries are meant to be deep cycled. I knew people would say "well I know a guy who had one since 1922." They have problems, they are not a reliable battery, the only thing they do well is add Bling and the battery is under the seat so nobody can see it anyway.

P.P.S. Whose yelling?
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  #11  
Old December 26th, 2004, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckon37s
Deep Cycle batteries are meant to be deep cycled.
Please provide some facts to back this up.

I'll stop arguing because you want to continue to perpetuate myths and you are unwilling to go and read and learn before speaking. Go read up and when you find information that tells you deep cycle lead acid batteries should be fully cycled to INCREASE life, I will believe you.
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  #12  
Old December 27th, 2004, 12:16 AM
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Thats it, I want to perpetuate myths. You caught me. Nice job. You want to use it, go ahead. Optima lies on it's instructions aparently.
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Old December 27th, 2004, 12:22 AM
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All deep cycle means is a battery that recovers better from a serious draining (like running an electric fishing boat motor) than a non-deep cycle battery. That said, I use the yellow top because after 5 years, I still can't locate the electrical "leak" that has killed three 1000 cold cranking amp batteries...the yellow top survives....for no other reason than...it can "recover" from my damn British electrical woes.
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Old December 27th, 2004, 12:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scot
All deep cycle means is a battery that recovers better from a serious draining (like running an electric fishing boat motor) than a non-deep cycle battery. That said, I use the yellow top because after 5 years, I still can't locate the electrical "leak" that has killed three 1000 cold cranking amp batteries...the yellow top survives....for no other reason than...it can "recover" from my damn British electrical woes.
Same reason I run mine, and the Diesel. Of course, I have killed three of the things in 15 months. At least they have a decent warranty, they pay you back just enough to make you feel like you have to buy another one. I am sure some people are pleased as punch but I will end my rant with "Buyer beware"
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Old December 28th, 2004, 08:26 AM
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Is it possible that there is something wrong in your electrical system that is killing the batteries and it is not just the batteries themselves? It may not be the case. But killing ANY battery in 5 month intervals should make you very curious.
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Old December 28th, 2004, 10:02 AM
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That is the problem with my truck, and so far the Yellow Top is the only battery of any strength I have had that has been able to stand it.....
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Old December 28th, 2004, 02:24 PM
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I had the whole electrical system checked over and I had a new alternator put in supplied by the Pendy himself. It is the battery, before I switched from the Sears brands to the Optimas (trying to increase my bling factor) I never had a problem. After I bought, of course, I started to do some research and found out that these batteries are highly problematic. I have had bad luck, I am sure there are people who have great luck. I just think everyone should be careful paying this much for this battery.
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Old December 28th, 2004, 02:44 PM
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I have been using the same blue top Excide glass mat for 6 YEARS, with winching and aux lights, no problems. Sam's Club has some "private" label deep cell glass mat marine batteries (by Excide) for like $130, with serious CCA's. I am an excide fan--it is the longest I have ever owned a battery.
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Old December 28th, 2004, 04:44 PM
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Have you had it check out since the batteries have started failing? It is not a simple test. You need to check for AC voltage levels coming from the alternator and proper voltage control. New alternator does not necessarily mean good alternator. As a minimum hook up a good digital volmeter and montior charging voltage. Check for power leakage with the truck off. If you can check the alternator output with an oscilliscope.
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Old December 28th, 2004, 05:00 PM
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I checked everything I could and then took it to a mechanic. This was before and after the new alternator. It is the batteries but there is a constant drain which makes me disconnect them when I park it fir any lenth of time.
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