driveline angles question - Page 4 - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #61  
Old November 16th, 2015, 12:23 PM
flippedrover's Avatar
flippedrover
Status: Offline
Tyler
'94 D-90
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ashburn,va
Posts: 3,124
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
He just needs to accept that he is not designing parts for a space ship he is designing them for a 30 year old british tractor.
true but you have to admit my idea would be more fun
__________________
Can't you feel 'em circlin' (closin'in) honey?
Can't you feel 'em swimmin' around?
You got fins to the left, fins to the right,
and you're the only bait in town.
You got fins to the left, fins to the right,
and you're the only girl in town.

Jimmy Buffett


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #62  
Old November 17th, 2015, 02:26 AM
sonoronos's Avatar
sonoronos
Status: Offline
Ed
None
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 5,530
Registry
You guys crack me up and I really appreciate your humor.

I think I've just been spending far too much time working on this truck lately and I just need to drive it and have fun at NOVA HH.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old November 17th, 2015, 08:21 AM
don's Avatar
don
Status: Offline
Don Bunnell
'86 110 3dr ST
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Rumson, NJ
Posts: 4,271
Registry
Between this and replacing the floor you should have just started with a Disco frame and made a D100

Love the fab work!
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #64  
Old November 17th, 2015, 08:31 AM
1of40's Avatar
1of40
Status: Offline
1of40
NAS 97SW & 83 One Ten Tdi
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Potomac Falls & Wintergreen, Virginia
Posts: 6,076
Registry
Ed, will this off-center the rear wheels enough to cause rubbing concerns?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old November 17th, 2015, 09:24 AM
ron's Avatar
ron
Status: Offline
Ron
1994 NAS Defender 90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Harwichport MA
Posts: 5,365
ed I assume your 90 is not an NAS.... if it is you may have a conflict with your rear gas tank
__________________
no thanks whatever I tell you, you will low ball me
I would rather keep the parts in storage
good luck with your search
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old November 17th, 2015, 01:34 PM
cgalpin's Avatar
cgalpin
Status: Offline
Charles Galpin
'94 D90 ST, '63 SeriesIIA
Site Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: South Riding, VA
Posts: 11,625
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
You guys crack me up and I really appreciate your humor.

I think I've just been spending far too much time working on this truck lately and I just need to drive it and have fun at NOVA HH.
Or wheeling with us like this

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4708.jpg
Views:	73
Size:	171.6 KB
ID:	135028
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by pendy
I'm here for the D's
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old November 18th, 2015, 09:57 AM
sonoronos's Avatar
sonoronos
Status: Offline
Ed
None
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 5,530
Registry
Hahah! I think that was the day that Jeff stood on my cage and tried to shake my truck off the rock!

Yeah, i'll be back as soon as this truck is back on the road...

Clay - I think my wheelbase is slightly (like an inch) longer than usual due to the front radius arms and rear arm bushings, but it doesn't seem to present an issue with my small tires.

Ron - Good point about the NAS tank, the good thing is that I have a UK truck with a side-saddle tank and therefore there's very little back there, as the picture below shows

So, it's all installed along with new a-frame bracket bushings.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20151118_091611 copy.jpg
Views:	55
Size:	99.9 KB
ID:	135095  
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old November 18th, 2015, 10:05 AM
down_shift's Avatar
down_shift
Status: Offline
Russell
94' D90 ST & 06' LR3
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Leesburg, VA
Posts: 4,118
Registry
Nice work! But stick some Grade 8 bolts in there. (Sorry - I recall commenting on your bumper bolts).
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old November 18th, 2015, 10:15 AM
sonoronos's Avatar
sonoronos
Status: Offline
Ed
None
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 5,530
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by down_shift View Post
Nice work! But stick some Grade 8 bolts in there. (Sorry - I recall commenting on your bumper bolts).
Hah! Where do I not have Grade 8's? (Actually, I have grade 5's and 300-series stainless in certain places that don't need them, because, as engineers know, grade 8's are only required where they are required...)
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old November 18th, 2015, 10:19 AM
down_shift's Avatar
down_shift
Status: Offline
Russell
94' D90 ST & 06' LR3
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Leesburg, VA
Posts: 4,118
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
Hah! Where do I not have Grade 8's?
The long bolts passing through your thingamajig. They look to be 3 or 5. Just used to seeing larger and thicker washers and nuts and zinc coating based on our local suppliers. Perhaps I frequent Tractor Supply too much.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old November 18th, 2015, 10:24 AM
Red90's Avatar
Red90
Status: Offline
John B.
1991 Defender 90, 200TDI
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 9,232
Registry
Except the grade 8's plating is a lot better.
__________________
Pissing people off on the "net" since 1983.

Land Rover. Turning owners into mechanics since 1948.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old November 18th, 2015, 10:26 AM
down_shift's Avatar
down_shift
Status: Offline
Russell
94' D90 ST & 06' LR3
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Leesburg, VA
Posts: 4,118
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
Hah! Where do I not have Grade 8's? (Actually, I have grade 5's and 300-series stainless in certain places that don't need them, because, as engineers know, grade 8's are only required where they are required...)
LOL. You spend a 100 hours designing and $$$ on this milling this cool block of of metal yet pinch a few bucks on the readily available easy stuff. Candidate for the cheapfu$& thread?
Joking aside, great work. Hope you created a market for this and sell a few hundred.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old November 18th, 2015, 10:32 AM
sonoronos's Avatar
sonoronos
Status: Offline
Ed
None
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 5,530
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by down_shift View Post
The long bolts passing through your thingamajig. They look to be 3 or 5. Just used to seeing larger and thicker washers and nuts and zinc coating based on our local suppliers. Perhaps I frequent Tractor Supply too much.
I see. There are 4 bolts in the thinamajig, two in the top, and two in the bottom.

The 2 tops are 1/2-20 Grade 8.
The 2 bottoms are a little special - high visibility blue M12x1.75 Class 10.9, the nuts are Class 12 (uncoated)

I think what you think are grade 3/5 is due to the silver color. In actuality, the nuts are black, the bolts are blue, and the silver is a very liberal coating of zinc antiseize.

I am a cheapfu$&, but I have to be. You could say I'm a professional cheapfu$&. One day, my truck is going to end up on the "Rovers That Suck" thread, but I could care less. I rest easy knowing that everyone else's trucks on here are just as bad as mine or worse. No matter what people "say" on defendersource, I know what they actually do in private.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old November 18th, 2015, 10:49 AM
sonoronos's Avatar
sonoronos
Status: Offline
Ed
None
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 5,530
Registry
Here's a better picture.

I should sell a grade-8 cad-plate rattle-can so that people can post pictures of their build on the internet and get accolades for using grade 8 everywhere.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20151118_093433 copy.jpg
Views:	36
Size:	79.6 KB
ID:	135120  
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old November 18th, 2015, 11:01 AM
Red90's Avatar
Red90
Status: Offline
John B.
1991 Defender 90, 200TDI
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 9,232
Registry
Stock bump stops? Is there adequate shock travel and a-frame clearance?
__________________
Pissing people off on the "net" since 1983.

Land Rover. Turning owners into mechanics since 1948.
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old November 18th, 2015, 11:05 AM
sonoronos's Avatar
sonoronos
Status: Offline
Ed
None
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 5,530
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
Stock bump stops? Is there adequate shock travel and a-frame clearance?
Yes. The A-frame clearance is shocking, several inches even on the stops and the huge chunk of steel there. There's a lot of room up there without a fuel tank.

With the Rockware hoops plus RS5012s, no problems.

And that is assuming that the TF027V springs would even allow the bump stops to touch.

I need to make a vehicle dynamics program on the web that allows people to modify and extend rover suspension components so they can see what's going on underneath the truck.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old November 18th, 2015, 11:48 AM
sonoronos's Avatar
sonoronos
Status: Offline
Ed
None
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 5,530
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post
Wouldn't spacer blocks on the frame side of the A-arm do the same thing, with less complication?
Good point, and I did think about that. I think the nail in the coffin for me was that the frame-side spacers would have to be approximately 3" thick to correct the angle the required amount. Not impossible, but the logistics were intimidating.

One thing to note is that I actually don't really understand the design of the a-frame brackets and how they respond to articulation. If they were designed to articulate freely, the pivots would be angled parallel to the frame. In the rover, they are angled inwards towards the rear. This forces the bushings to bind as the suspension is compressed and extended.

So these spacers (regardless of which end of the a-frame they are located) change the resting angle of the a-frame, and therefore change the amount of binding that occurs on compression and extension. I didn't account for this because i don't understand the mechanics.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old November 18th, 2015, 11:48 AM
Red90's Avatar
Red90
Status: Offline
John B.
1991 Defender 90, 200TDI
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 9,232
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post
Wouldn't spacer blocks on the frame side of the A-arm do the same thing, with less complication?

-Jeff
I think you would interfere with the exhaust. Possibly the driveshaft as well.
__________________
Pissing people off on the "net" since 1983.

Land Rover. Turning owners into mechanics since 1948.
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old October 29th, 2016, 03:56 PM
sonoronos's Avatar
sonoronos
Status: Offline
Ed
None
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 5,530
Registry
So after some measurement, it appears to me that the following are true (approximately) - when using an A-arm spacer and RTE arms.

Stock Ride Height:
horizontal pinion: 11.14 degree driveshaft angle (from horizontal) - delta (degrees from stock): 0 degrees
pinion pointing at lt230 output: 7.6 degrees driveshaft angle (from horizontal) - delta (degrees from stock): 0 degrees

4" drop/lift:
horizontal pinion: 21 degree driveshaft angle (from horizontal) - delta (degrees from stock): 9.86 degrees
pinion pointing at lt230 output: 14 degrees driveshaft angle (from horizontal) - delta (degrees from stock): 6.4 degrees

12" drop/lift:
horizontal pinion: 40.78 degree driveshaft angle (from horizontal) - delta (degrees from stock): 29.64 degrees
pinion pointing at lt230 output: 28.45 degrees driveshaft angle (from horizontal) - delta (degrees from stock): 20.85 degrees

independently: Pinion angle change vs. articulation:
Stock ride height: 0 degrees.
4" drop/lift: rise 5.9347 degrees (from stock)
12" drop/lift: rise 18.1945 degrees (from stock)

This is assuming 23.5" upper arm distance from pivot to ball joint and 28.5" lower arms.

Stock upper arm distance from pivot to ball joint is 22" (removed A-frame spacer). Not sure how long the stock lower arms are, but I'm assuming probably around 28.5"

Not sure how much it affects the overall change in angles during articulation, but I can't imagine much.

The reason the pinion angle changes the overall change in driveshaft angle is because the pinion to axle centerline distance is approximately 11.5".
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old October 29th, 2016, 04:02 PM
1of40's Avatar
1of40
Status: Offline
1of40
NAS 97SW & 83 One Ten Tdi
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Potomac Falls & Wintergreen, Virginia
Posts: 6,076
Registry
Are you going to bring this thang to RoTR and challenge it in a couple weeks?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need an older Defender 90 looked at in Los Angles (Pasadena/Alhambra) defendernut For Sale - Vehicles 8 March 23rd, 2015 11:16 PM
Rover Mechanic in Los Angles? Flagg Defender Technical Discussions 15 January 18th, 2013 01:43 PM
Quick driveline question D90user Defender Technical Discussions 2 May 11th, 2006 09:29 AM
3 Link Angles To Reduce Vibs ? jorge Defender Technical Discussions 1 December 31st, 2005 02:36 PM
Drive Shaft Angles TDI Guy Defender Technical Discussions 27 March 17th, 2004 06:10 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:45 AM.


Copyright