DIY VNT turbo for 300TDI? - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old February 9th, 2011, 05:41 PM
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Jason Herring
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DIY VNT turbo for 300TDI?

The EVO kit seems really expensive for what it is (a turbo, a manifold and some plumbing) and I couldn't justify $2600 for a kit from the UK (missed the window on the group buy at $2K), so I started looking around for options to build a "DIY" kit.

Unless I'm missing something, the key pieces are:

1) the VNT (turbo)
2) the manifold
3) some plumbing

Since #3 seems easy to fabricate..

1) The turbo on the HS2.8, according to this post 300TDI Performance Mods is a Garrett GT2256V (Garrett part number 724652-0001) - 22 is the turbine series, 56 is the diameter of the exducer (outlet) of the compressor impeller in mm.

Doing some Google searching finds the GT2256V for about $350 single units shipped direct from China. However, the Garrett part number I can't match up, so I'm not sure if there are superceded P/Ns or if the GT2256V is a general 'class' of turbo and the P/N associated with it will radically change the orientation of the turbo (different mounting types). Any thoughts?

The same thread also mentions that Allard and Allisport upgrade kits use the next bigger turbo than the stock HS2.8 - Garrett GT2559V - 25 turbine series and 59mm compressor exducer. Again, not sure if this is enough info to choose what turbo to order.

Thoughts?

2) The manifold - I can only imagine I have to somehow acquire an original. However, I was told by a mechanic at a shop who works on custom/racing engines that there is a local manufacturer in LA who will cast one-off manifolds (exhaust) for under $200 if they have a pattern original... of course, this would require some machining to make work.

Any thoughts on locating an original manifold - either to use as a pattern, or, if affordable, to just purchase?

3) Easy to source


So, It would seem I could put together a DIY for ~$1K, maybe $1200... Thoughts?
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  #2  
Old February 9th, 2011, 06:19 PM
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I looked into it really hard, When I plugged in the $750 for the correct turbo for the app (there are lots ove versions of the GT2256V) My home made version was close to $1700. Using a Tube manifold and a used turbo from a Nissan Patrol got me down around $800
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  #3  
Old February 9th, 2011, 06:38 PM
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Have you talked to these guys? http://www.irbdevelopments.com/ I recall they do a kit that is a lot cheaper.

http://www.landroveraddict.com/smf/i...topic=391411.0
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  #4  
Old February 9th, 2011, 10:24 PM
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Hmm, let's see... a VGT vs a VNT (who cares? they do the same thing in the end...), no mods to the intake plumbing, and one estimated price was around $1K?

If that's true I'm on board - forget DIY!
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  #5  
Old February 10th, 2011, 09:31 AM
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I've got one of Ian (IRB deveopments) VGT turbo's on my Td5 110. his fit straight on (as do the Tdi versions) onto the manifold, no faffing about needed.

On tghe Td5 just a longer oil feep pipe is needed, although mine was an early model... the Mk4 which he now does is orientated slightly differently and i think the standard pipes will work.

It certainly made a difference to the driveability of the engine (along with an ECU upgrade) it really pulls like a modern diesel should... no lag from low RPMs, just smooth power delivery.

If you email him.... don';t hold your breath waiting for a reply though
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  #6  
Old February 10th, 2011, 12:24 PM
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Hmm, funny that, his website says "Email is the usually the best method of contacting me." I should try carrier pigeons... :-)
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Old February 10th, 2011, 01:08 PM
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LOL... yeah, sometimes he's quick at replying, sometimes it takes ages.


And i class him as a friend too! (maybe he doesn't like ME as much? )
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  #8  
Old February 10th, 2011, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diesel_jim View Post
And i class him as a friend too! (maybe he doesn't like ME as much? )
Jim, you should bug him to update the information on the 200 and 200TDI kits..... He can't just post up saying he is going to produce kits that cheap and then just vanish. Does he not like money?
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  #9  
Old February 12th, 2011, 10:55 PM
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let me know what you find out Jason.
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Old February 14th, 2011, 02:18 PM
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Why would you spend time and money to put a VNT on a Tdi when you can fit a GT2056 (model 751578-2) and have the thing start making boost earlier than a stocker, and generate more airflow and boost pressure than your engine knows what to do with, and a nice simple flapper wastegate that will continue to work even when your EGT's are so high your engine is about to go pop.


Search and you'll find them all day long for under $800...

VNT is just a lot more stuff to go wrong. A (new) GT2056 will outlast your engine. Just make sure you fit a nice full-width intercooler to make use of all that boost!


oh, and stay well away from China turbo's...
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Old February 15th, 2011, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbodave View Post
Why would you spend time and money to put a VNT on a Tdi when you can fit a GT2056 (model 751578-2) and have the thing start making boost earlier than a stocker, and generate more airflow and boost pressure than your engine knows what to do with, and a nice simple flapper wastegate that will continue to work even when your EGT's are so high your engine is about to go pop.


Search and you'll find them all day long for under $800...

VNT is just a lot more stuff to go wrong. A (new) GT2056 will outlast your engine. Just make sure you fit a nice full-width intercooler to make use of all that boost!


oh, and stay well away from China turbo's...
Give us more info. Does it bolt up?
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Old February 16th, 2011, 08:06 AM
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It'll bolt upto a 200Tdi manifold as it has the generic 'T2' flange - but I'm wondering if it'll need a 'power bulge' in the hood to clear the compressor housing (approx 1.5" larger dia than the T2 on the 200Tdi).


Any decent shop should be able to knock up a custom tubular header if you needed to go that route... Or can someone persuade me there is sufficient market that I should make a jig and put some manifolds together?
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  #13  
Old February 16th, 2011, 09:16 AM
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You won't get the boost curve of a VNT. Also a lot more boost will blow the head gasket.
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Old February 16th, 2011, 10:43 AM
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Too much boost? Well, that is what a wastegate is for... Standard wastegate boost on the GT2056 is 11psi I recall - but who is going to fit a modified turbo and not expect to have to adjust/monitor boost levels?

I agree you won't get the 'curve of a VNT' - it'll be making boost probably halfway between a PERFECTLY SET UP VNT and the stock unit - but in reality any VNT that is not electrically operated is not an ideal VNT anyway... What you do get is a turbo that is very well proven at 30+PSI levels, has a highly efficient compressor and turbine and is a lot cheaper than any VNT.
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Old February 16th, 2011, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbodave View Post
Too much boost? Well, that is what a wastegate is for... Standard wastegate boost on the GT2056 is 11psi I recall - but who is going to fit a modified turbo and not expect to have to adjust/monitor boost levels?

I agree you won't get the 'curve of a VNT' - it'll be making boost probably halfway between a PERFECTLY SET UP VNT and the stock unit - but in reality any VNT that is not electrically operated is not an ideal VNT anyway... What you do get is a turbo that is very well proven at 30+PSI levels, has a highly efficient compressor and turbine and is a lot cheaper than any VNT.
I have a 300TDi.

I thought about 17psi was max to sefely put through this engine?? I am interested in this. $800 is doable. 2k, not so much.
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Old February 16th, 2011, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckon37s View Post
I thought about 17psi was max to sefely put through this engine?? I am interested in this. $800 is doable. 2k, not so much.
Really, just contact IRB as discussed above. He can do you a hybrid for that sort of price or a VNT for a little more. And he knows what he is doing...
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Old February 16th, 2011, 03:14 PM
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Well, there is much more to it than '17psi'

17psi from a turbo designed 25 years ago (the T2 series) vs a turbo designed a little over 10 years ago (the GT series) means you now have a compressor that gets upto 78% efficiency, vs the 71% that the TB### series probably tops out at...

Then you have a turbine, which is a more efficient 'wheel' profile, and a higher flow - which means for a given boost, your engine is running a lower backpressure - which (in very basic terms) results in a better performing engine for equal or even lower boost....

The limit on the engine is really the amount that you can adjust that injector pump... I suspect that 17PSI comes from the stock Tb turbo, which was never meant to run more than 14psi in any application. Do the 'traditional' tuning stuff like a larger bore primary exhaust, an efficient intercooler and air intake, intercooler pipes without the factory restrictions and maybe even a modified head, and you'll go way further with the GT than anyone could ever achieve with a TB.
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  #18  
Old February 16th, 2011, 04:48 PM
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just for information, my 2.8 runs at 16-17psi off the crate at max boost (achieved at or above 2k rpm). I've never adjusted the wastegate.
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Old March 9th, 2011, 12:57 PM
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Really, just contact IRB as discussed above. He can do you a hybrid for that sort of price or a VNT for a little more. And he knows what he is doing...
So the hard part appears to be in contacting IRB. I've tried multiple times to call all numbers listed (early AM in California, late afternoon in UK), have left VM, and have sent three email messages.

Anyone have the Batline to this guy?
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Old March 9th, 2011, 01:14 PM
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yes! i'll send him a text telling him to check his emails etc
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