Diesel fuels in arctic conditions - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old February 8th, 2011, 08:43 PM
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mark kellgren
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Diesel fuels in arctic conditions

I'm always interested in learning more about winterizing my TDI 110 for extreme winter conditions, as I'm looking forward to overlanding into the Canadian arctic at some point in the future. On that note, I found a very interesting link of information on diesel fuels in arctic conditions. It's for dodge rams, but some rams have the bosch ve pump (as you may have seen on youtube), so the same pump on the 300 tdi and 2.8 tgv.

One thing I just learned from this link is that in an emergency, I can use the following alternative fuels if I add 5% clean lube oil to it:

"These fuels are "OK": #1 & #2 Diesel, 1K & 2K Kerosene, Jet-A, Jet A-1, JP-5, and JP-8."

It's also recommended to always run with a snow front/radiator muff in extreme temps. I'm sporting my new ruggedguide radiator muff now!

http://dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/FAQ/diesel_fuel.htm

Here's some other diesel winterizing links for anyone interested. Post up more if you have them!

http://www.arctic-fox.com/
http://www.zerostart.com/coldstart/d...technology.asp

by the way, PA Blanchard does in fact have the heater snow covers for the right wing in stock!
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  #2  
Old February 8th, 2011, 09:34 PM
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Andrew
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Up here we have winter diesel which is diesel with differing amounts of kerosene in it depending on the area. By the time you get up to the Yukon and NWT there is a lot kerosene in it and you will feel and hear the difference.
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  #3  
Old February 8th, 2011, 10:22 PM
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John B.
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You don't need a radiator muff. You should not cover the intercooler, so it won't really do much.

- Make sure your thermostat closes fully.
- Make sure your heater is in prime condition. For a 110, a second heater or diesel to air heater is a good idea.
- Insulate the crap out of the truck.
- Make sure it is well sealed.

- Install a Webasto....best thing since sliced bread.

As headdamage states, you don't have to worry about the fuel. It is very safe. It is blended for the conditions. I've never heard of anyone gelling. Some good diesel fuel conditioner can't hurt, especially when coming from the south as it will get rid of any water hanging around in the fuel system.
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  #4  
Old February 9th, 2011, 12:50 AM
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Very timely. It's been ridiculously cold here in Chicago........0 and below WITHOUT windchill!!!!!!

A few days ago the truck started acting funny.......almost stalling at idle......lot's of white smoke........dropping RPM's when trying to boost up.

Long story short, probably water in the diesel from the gas station tanks. Never saw it coming.

Put in a little diesel conditioner and good as new!!

Would HIGHLY recommend everyone run with something mixed in when the temps are below freezing especially multiple days in a row.

Would definitely recommend radiator cover. Don't understand why covering the intercooler is a problem. Who cares if you drop some HP.........no one's going fast in this cold weather. Am I missing something??

Would think it's better to get temps up and keep up for the engine AND the driver. I've also got an Espar and can't recommend enough. Without out it there is no heat if the car is traveling less than an hour, even at highway speed.

Curious to here others experiences.
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  #5  
Old February 9th, 2011, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikojo View Post
Don't understand why covering the intercooler is a problem. Who cares if you drop some HP.........no one's going fast in this cold weather. Am I missing something??
The EGTs will get too high. The EGTs still go high when it is cold out. Why would you not drive fast, just because it is winter?? You do not only lose power. These engine do not have intake air temperature compensation, so seriously overfuel if the air temperature goes high, causing high EGTs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikojo View Post
I've also got an Espar and can't recommend enough. Without out it there is no heat if the car is traveling less than an hour, even at highway speed.
You probably have a leaking thermostat then. The Espar should make zero difference on the highway. When driven at speed, the engine should still come to normal operating temperature by itself in a few minutes. A radiator muff does very little if everything is running properly. I'm driving around in -25 all of the time.
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  #6  
Old February 9th, 2011, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
A radiator muff does very little if everything is running properly. I'm driving around in -25 all of the time.
Agreed. My 200Tdi is always gets up to 185 within 10-15 minutes, no matter what the temp is outside.

Fuel wise, I put Opti-Lube XPD in each tank. Here's a great study on diesel additives:

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=177728
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  #7  
Old February 9th, 2011, 09:45 AM
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mark kellgren
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well i have a new thermostat on the way from RN just to be sure, but I have a short commute and rarely get up to highway speeds during the work week. I run a muff all week long and it makes a big difference in staying and maintaining temperature around town. I also have an EGT gauge, and haven't seen a difference with or without the muff.

That said, if I know I'm going to need to get on the highway for more than 5 minutes, I'll roll up the muff, as at highway speeds the engine will come to temp and stay there pretty quick.
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Old February 9th, 2011, 09:53 PM
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Good thoughts on the thermostat although it's all new.

I think the difference between our trucks may also be my intercooler and radiator. Both have been "Pendy-sized" so the radiator is like 4 core massive and the intercooler is full length.

My EGT's have been under 700-800 since the Fall even on the highway under load for stretches. Even with the muff on I've seen so difference in EGT's.

The muff has made a big difference for me maintaining temps and the Espar has been invaluable. Without it my coolant temps are in the 130's!!!!! Even with it the temps never top 160.

I will likely check the thermostat just in case as I would love to run higher temps.
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Old February 9th, 2011, 10:13 PM
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The thermostat should let nothing through until normal temperature so the size of the radiator makes no difference. Any heat in the upper line is bad. In my experience at least 50% of NEW thermostats leak.

Mine sit where it should (83 C) always unless I'm idling around town, even at -30. No rad muff.
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  #10  
Old February 9th, 2011, 10:17 PM
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Mark......where'd you get the thermostat on your 2.8 and what's the part number?
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  #11  
Old February 9th, 2011, 11:23 PM
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Carl Jonsson
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I also got a fuel filter heater which kicks in below 40F.
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  #12  
Old February 10th, 2011, 09:08 AM
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mark kellgren
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikojo View Post
Mark......where'd you get the thermostat on your 2.8 and what's the part number?
it's a 300 tdi thermostat, ordered from RN. I have actually gone through the entire international 2.8 parts catalogue, and identified everything that is common to the 300 tdi with a LR part no.

300 tdi thermostat - ERR3291 (apparently no gasket needed)
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  #13  
Old February 10th, 2011, 10:18 AM
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We had a Rabbit diesel when I was growing up and would regularly encounter prolonged sub-freezing conditions. My father would add a measuring cup of gasoline to the 12-ish gallon tank of diesel to keep it from gelling. Seems to have worked well except the one time he forgot.

Anyone had any experiences with this? I haven't heard of anyone doing this in years.
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  #14  
Old February 10th, 2011, 10:58 AM
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mark kellgren
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smenzel View Post
We had a Rabbit diesel when I was growing up and would regularly encounter prolonged sub-freezing conditions. My father would add a measuring cup of gasoline to the 12-ish gallon tank of diesel to keep it from gelling. Seems to have worked well except the one time he forgot.

Anyone had any experiences with this? I haven't heard of anyone doing this in years.
add ins are highlighted in the article I listed the link on.
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  #15  
Old February 11th, 2011, 12:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
add ins are highlighted in the article I listed the link on.
Thanks, Mark. That lengthy collection of messages about Dodge Ram diesels is definitely informative (my head is spinning from all of the information <G>) but I found no mention of using very small amounts of gasoline to keep diesel from gelling.
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  #16  
Old February 11th, 2011, 09:18 AM
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Gasoline would not be a great choice as there is no lubricity and the engine can't burn it. There are a ton of diesel fuel conditioners out there that remove any possibility of gelling and increase lubricity at the same time.
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  #17  
Old February 11th, 2011, 09:44 AM
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I use a Cetane booster/anti gelling agent from truck stops...its cheap and works
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