Diesel & auto in D110 - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old July 1st, 2004, 05:57 PM
artm
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Arthur Maravelis
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Diesel & auto in D110

I searched a bit on this but didn't get anywhere. Anyone know of a nice conversion for this? Perhaps with a MB motor?

I am assuming that the 300Tdi isn't up to it but would love to be proven otherwise. I mean, there are Discos with this setup but how are they?
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  #2  
Old July 1st, 2004, 06:54 PM
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Art have you asked on any of the UK forums? Jimmy S (friend o mine) had a 110 in the UK with a 300 tdi but it had a manual tranny, and it had more then enough power to move the 110 off road, and then zip down the highway. I always thought that you really only lost about 5 to 10% of your overall power through an auto tranny, couldn't you get that power back with a bigger intercooler and some minor mods to the tdi? Everyone always is saying that a 110 with an auto and a tdi will suck for power but I have never heard it from someone who has owned one or even one driven. Really how much harder is it to push a 110 down the road then a 90 or like you said a disco?
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  #3  
Old July 1st, 2004, 06:59 PM
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Arthur Maravelis
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I'm going through some old LR mags to see how the Disco/RR setups work. As we're now hearing about the 2.8 being a dog in this application how can the Tdi be any better???

I have read one excellent thread in LRE bbs on pumping up the Tdi's basic settings and planned on doing that anyways. That is a minimum requirement if I fit the ZF.
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  #4  
Old July 2nd, 2004, 07:56 AM
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I would call www.eastcoastrover.com. I'm sure Mike can help with this.


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  #5  
Old July 2nd, 2004, 08:48 AM
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Arthur Maravelis
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No, they were to do this with the 2.8 but, as noted, now they appear to have abandoned that idea. If they feel this motor can't keep up with an auto what hope is there for all the "lesser" ones?

I'll look into a Mazda, MB or even the new LR V6 diesels.
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  #6  
Old July 2nd, 2004, 09:44 AM
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It strikes me as very, very peculiar that ECR says the auto can't keep up with the 2.8. Of course, if you "want it done RIGHT, take it to ECR"...blah, blah, blah. I think their still reeling from having their hand slapped by the DOT.

You know I disagree with that opinion. The guys at Ashcroft disagree with that, as well as M&D engineering. Ashcroft will sell you the right governor and kickdown for your V8 ZF for 175 pounds. I'm picking one up just to make the 4th gear lock up a bit earlier. It's a fairly straight

Art, have you had the 110 weighed? I'd definitely like to sit down and compare GVW of both. Almost any real deal truck stop can weigh your rig for $5-7. I really doubt the 110 weighs a whole lot more than the 90. Maybe 2-300 pounds at the most.

If that's the case, I would just get a full width intercooler instead of the half width one. And I bet you would cook.

But, it's all purely my opinion...

Edit:

Art, you might consider the TD5. RDS can get you the whole setup. Even already installed on the chassis. At least with the TD5, you can electronically tune it.
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  #7  
Old July 2nd, 2004, 10:08 AM
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Arthur Maravelis
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Haven't weighed it as I won't have it until mid August. As I said, printed figures are bogus.

Yes, I will upgrade the cooler and tweek the pump settings. There's an excellent post on the LRE forum on this. Don't know if that's enough to slip in a ZF though and be happy. If the weights are fairly close then how is your ride? I am looking for pep only nothing drastic. For me my 97 is plenty peppy so that's where I'm coming from.

Still, bottom line, I won't do a $10K conversion. If I have to go back to a V8 with side tanks for range I'm there. I MUST have that auto!
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  #8  
Old July 4th, 2004, 02:57 AM
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My 110 200tdi pulls a GKN overdrive +28% to the gearing just fine and can hit very illegal speeds with enough space for a run-up. O.K it's manual but it's still a 28% increase in the gearing. The engine and intercooler are standard. Just my 2p worth.
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  #9  
Old July 5th, 2004, 05:02 PM
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Hi there,

A guy in my 4x4 club here in The Netherlands has just converted his second 110 with TD5 egine to automatic transmission.

I works great, and there doesn't seem to be much loss of power.

If you want I can ask some details which auto box he used for the conversion.

Rgds.

Marc
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  #10  
Old July 6th, 2004, 05:04 AM
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I'm running a Discovery 1 fitted with factory fit 300Tdi and ZF 4-speed auto. In standard form, they're certainly an aquired taste. People either love them or hate them. Those that have never driven one before, usually hate them! Tdi engine just doesn't have the grunt to get things moving in any kind of hurry, and that's despite LR upping the torque and power (marginally) of the auto-spec Tdi's by using an ECU controlled injector pump. I guess it depends what kind of driving style you have. If you like racing away from lights, then definitely don't buy a Tdi Auto.

I've just fitted an uprated intercooler and ECU chip upgrade from Jeremy J Fearn in the UK and that has really transformed the truck. Engine is now far more eager and punchier and in charge of the gearbox, rather than the other way round, which is normally the case. Torque is now up around 270lb/ft with BHP up to around 150bhp.

Kev
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  #11  
Old July 6th, 2004, 10:10 AM
artm
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Arthur Maravelis
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Marc,

Thanks but I do not want the TD5.



Kevin,

I do not want jack-rabbit starts as we call it here. My 97 D90 (auto) is plenty peppy for me and I don;t go around racing it. If I can get that kind of "adequate" performance out of a diesel that's good enough. Cruising at 70MPH is about all I can hope for. However, to go to an ECU pump? I don't know if that's what I'd do.

I plan on up-tuning the pump as described on the LRE bbs and fitting a larger intercooler. If I can then get away with swapping in a ZF and get what I want then I'm done. I do not want to start investing in better turbos and other stuff. At that point I'll take it all out and just fit a V8.
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  #12  
Old July 6th, 2004, 07:18 PM
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Don't worry, you don't need the ECU pump to run the auto. The two are not linked in any way.

Go with the fuelling mod to your existing pump and fit a larger intercooler. Combined together, they should be more than enough to keep your D90 sweet.
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  #13  
Old July 7th, 2004, 12:32 AM
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I drove an automatic 300TDi Discovery in Africa quite some distance (to the amazing Leopard rock golf course from Harare and back). It has no acceleration at all, at least you can't feel it accelerating. Painful, honestly. But once up to speed it would cruise along quietly and on one occasion I saw 100mph, no drama. At the time my daily driver was a 300TDI Defender manual tranny it felt way way quicker. Of course Discos always feel slower as they are so quiet compared to 90/110s but in all honesty I think a standard 300TDi with an auto in a D110 would be too lethargic much of the time here.
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  #14  
Old July 8th, 2004, 01:03 AM
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Hey Art,

Go to Pirate and PM Merve. He has one I believe and is very pleased with it. He is also extremely smart when it comes to Rovers. Keep in mind you can tweak that motor to make some respectable power numbers with a flat head skrewdriver.
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  #15  
Old July 8th, 2004, 08:57 AM
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David, Got any details on that? I'm assuming tweaking the fueling? Let me know. I've read the threads on Pirate and their a little lean on info. PErhaps Pendy can give us his extra "special" recipe...

I hear he is the guru of tweaking the tdi stateside.
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  #16  
Old July 8th, 2004, 09:01 AM
artm
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Arthur Maravelis
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Go here for the tweaking scoop:

http://www.lrenthusiastforum.com/ubb...&o=0&fpart=all
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  #17  
Old July 8th, 2004, 09:09 AM
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Okay. Perhaps some real world results need to be applied.

Anyone in New England with a fairly stock 110 with the 3.9?
And, anyone with a 300tdi (d90 or d110)?

Meet you at the drag strip?

We'll have a 3rd party take bets. No need to bring your title though, I don't want anyone else's truck...

Edit: of course I may need to unload the 300+ pounds fo recovery gear and spares out of my truck first.

Thanks for the link Art. I thik I saw that a while back and lost it.
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  #18  
Old July 8th, 2004, 09:40 AM
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I'm afraid I've not had a diesel auto so I dont have first hand comments to make. The guy to try is probably Jamie Austin if he hands out here? If not, you can get him on the D90 mailing list usually.

I do think that a 300tdi with the larger intercooler / opened up pump should run an autobox in a 110 quite nicely. The only place it would be slow would be off the lights, but it should cruize very sweet.

If the 200 or 300 tdi does'nt workout for you, I think you are correct to stick with the V8 instead of a TD5 as the cost would be crazy, and the electronics required in the install are pretty heavy. I drive a TD5 110, but it's got a manual box. And to quote a bean town bloke who drove it "It moves right along".

Merv.

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hello everyone, it's been a while!
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  #19  
Old July 9th, 2004, 04:11 PM
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Sorry Merve. I thought it was you but I messed up. Hey David, I can give you all the info but I got it all from Pendy who is the God of Diesels. He is definently better to ask than me. My pump is set at what he told me on the phone to do. People never believe me but I can peel out in first and second gear on a dry street with 4.56 gears and 37in tires. Top speed sucks though because of the gearing. I hit 70 at 3200 RPM. I am going to swap t-cases. Anyway, I really believe that a 300tdi mated to an auto box if done right would be great. Even with the extra weight of a 110. Oh, and make sure if you tweak everything to get an EGT and keep an eye on it. I can get up there in temp pretty quick on long uphill roads. The new exaust helped a lot but I need a new Intercooler in order to never worry about it.
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