Determining Rear stub axle wear - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old August 18th, 2015, 02:44 PM
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Determining Rear stub axle wear

I had some oil leaking from my rear long axle at the disc brakes so I removed the components necessary to replace both the axle and the bearing seal. These components have 167,000 miles on them.

In looking at the surfaces where the rear bearing races rest on the stub axles, there's a little burnish on them but not a line (so to speak) where the inner races rest on the stub axle. The bearings and race surfaces seem to be in good shape, shiny and no pitting.

Is there a way to tell if they are worn out or is there a wear down amount that is acceptable ?
It sorta looks as though the bearing race has somewhat spun on the stub axle a bit when you compare the race areas to the area in the center of the races where nothing rests on that surface.
There was no slop, up/down, in/out, to the discs before I removed the bearing nuts, everything was nice and snug. The grease in the long axle end was quite thin as it was mixed with diff oil.

Since I scribed a line on the long axle years ago when I installed my Detroit, I discovered the axle now has a 3/4 twist to it, time for a new long axle.
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  #2  
Old August 18th, 2015, 03:45 PM
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I would just replace the seals.
Although I dont really use the axle seals and run my hubs "wet".

I just replaced the hub seals and repacked the bearings on my LWB at 178,000 miles and the stubs looked great.

I, too, scribed a line on some GBR HD rear axles that I installed in 2004. When I pulled them out in 2014 they were still perfectly straight but there was corrosion in the center section of the shaft where oil never hit them.
So I cleaned all the corrosion off and applied grease liberally to the entire axle shaft for reinsertion...


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  #3  
Old August 18th, 2015, 04:00 PM
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This is not a place where any wear should happen. There should be no movement of the parts to cause wear.

Wet hubs for the win every time.
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  #4  
Old August 18th, 2015, 04:29 PM
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What is the part number for the seal you are using with the wet hubs?
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Old August 20th, 2015, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rover4x4 View Post
What is the part number for the seal you are using with the wet hubs?
LOL
Either leave the old axle seal alone because when it gets old it leaks---allowing diff oil to lubricate your hubs/bearings.
Or pull the seal out altogether.

Just make sure when you go to Uwharrie you do equal left and right side slopes to balance out the sloshing gear oil.




Here's a picture of my axles that I ran "wet" for 10 years.
You can see they had rust and corrosion on the midshaft area.
I cleaned them up and applied lots of grease because some areas just never get diff oil splashed on them.

.
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  #6  
Old August 20th, 2015, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rover4x4 View Post
what is the part number for the seal you are using with the wet hubs?
rtc3511
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  #7  
Old August 20th, 2015, 09:00 PM
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^^ yes- what he just posted ^^

I kept thinking you were asking about the axle seal.

Tech Tip: we recommend using RTC3511 hub seals
even if you don't eliminate the axle case seal. This is a
double lip seal and a vast improvement over the seal
currently specified by Land Rover. When Land Rover
added the axle case seal they used a much less
effective hub seal because the wheel bearing now
specified only requires wheel bearing grease for the
bearings. Wheel bearing grease is very easy to seal in
because it does't go anywhere ie: it doesn't flow. The
problem is the current specified seal isn't very effective
at sealing things out such as water - hence the risk
premature of wheel bearing failure! When installing
RTC3511 hub seals, recess them 3mm into the hub or
you will get a false reading on your wheel bearing
preload.


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  #8  
Old August 20th, 2015, 11:06 PM
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When you ran wet hubs, how much gear oil did you use per axle/diff?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomar View Post
LOL
Either leave the old axle seal alone because when it gets old it leaks---allowing diff oil to lubricate your hubs/bearings.
Or pull the seal out altogether.

Just make sure when you go to Uwharrie you do equal left and right side slopes to balance out the sloshing gear oil.




Here's a picture of my axles that I ran "wet" for 10 years.
You can see they had rust and corrosion on the midshaft area.
I cleaned them up and applied lots of grease because some areas just never get diff oil splashed on them.

.
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  #9  
Old August 20th, 2015, 11:22 PM
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The suggestion. Is to overfill a bit by jacking one wheel up a couple of inches. You still grease them. The oil slowly washes out the grease.
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Old August 20th, 2015, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishEH View Post
When you ran wet hubs, how much gear oil did you use per axle/diff?
Just a little extra...

Do like John said.


.
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Old August 21st, 2015, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
The suggestion. Is to overfill a bit by jacking one wheel up a couple of inches. You still grease them. The oil slowly washes out the grease.
Well I sewer capped my diffs and made the fill higher than stock. How does the grease getting washed out effect the properties of the gear lube? I don't want to jack up my diffs with funky gear lube.
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Old August 21st, 2015, 04:35 PM
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Doesn't it seem reasonable the LR Engineers decided to keep the grease and oil separate by a seal on the interior of the stub axle on the more modern versions of the axle design?

I do like the idea of the RTC3511 on the external stub axle as a seal, if for no other reason than the dual seal lips and the inner spring tension on them.
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Old August 21st, 2015, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viton View Post
Doesn't it seem reasonable the LR Engineers decided to keep the grease and oil separate by a seal on the interior of the stub axle on the more modern versions of the axle design?
They did it to reduce warranty claims. When the seals fail and there is grease in there, nothing comes out, nobody complains... This is all fine and dandy until you go off road and fill the hub with mud and then are stranded with toasted wheel bearings.

With the oil fed bearings (which is the way they were in the past), the oil leaks, you know the seal is bad and you fix it before going off road.

The change to dry hubs was not an engineering decision. It was from the bean counters.
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Old August 21st, 2015, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishEH View Post
Well I sewer capped my diffs and made the fill higher than stock. How does the grease getting washed out effect the properties of the gear lube? I don't want to jack up my diffs with funky gear lube.
Won't hurt the gear lube.
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  #15  
Old August 21st, 2015, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
They did it to reduce warranty claims. When the seals fail and there is grease in there, nothing comes out, nobody complains... This is all fine and dandy until you go off road and fill the hub with mud and then are stranded with toasted wheel bearings.
Exactly.

People who buy expensive 4x4's cant stand to see an oil puddle on their garage floor or driveway so they whine to the dealers.


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  #16  
Old August 22nd, 2015, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomar View Post
Exactly. People who buy expensive 4x4's cant stand to see an oil puddle on their garage floor or driveway so they whine to the dealers. .
ha! That's how I got my 90. Owner's wife had a fit when it dripped eng oil on their cobble stone drive and SLATE garage floor. I met her when I picked it up. She was a real treat.
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