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  #141  
Old October 3rd, 2016, 10:18 PM
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So... as far as I understand it, the requirements for importing a Land Rover (Ex-MOD(?) Defender 110 into the United States are that it must meet the NAS + Near Factory Stock + 25yr or older. That about right?

Now, as for bringing it into and being able to drive it legally in California the primary barrier for it being legal is the emissions going by this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by navydevildoc View Post
  • There is no "sliding window" or "25 year exemption". Since the engines used in Defenders (2.25, 2.5, Turbo, 200Tdi, 300Tdi) were never certified by California or the EPA, they are then ILLEGAL in California vehicles.
That about right? Then if I understand things correctly then purely importing it into the US shouldn't be an issue so long as it meets the national requirements, however in order for me to actually register it in the California/Make it emissions compliant I'm going to need to do an engine swap on it?
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  #142  
Old October 3rd, 2016, 11:02 PM
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I bought a 1985 ROW 110 from a guy in the state of Washington. It was legally registered and titled in Washington. Before that it was registered and titled in Nevada. My 110 has an engine swap with a 92 Range Rover gas motor. When I tried to get it smogged in California the nightmare began. To make a long story short I had to take it to an independent laboratory in Santa Ana (the only one in the state) they had it for over four months and it cost me over $4,000 to get it to pass emissions regulations and get the CARB stickers placed on my 110. It is now fully legal in California. One of the very few that is. The inspector at the laboratory told me that I was lucky I didn't have a Diesel motor because the last one he made legal cost the owner over $7000. My advice to anyone who is trying to bring in a ROW 110 into California beware!
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  #143  
Old October 4th, 2016, 12:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PseudoSim View Post
So... as far as I understand it, the requirements for importing a Land Rover (Ex-MOD(?) Defender 110 into the United States are that it must meet the NAS + Near Factory Stock + 25yr or older. That about right?

Now, as for bringing it into and being able to drive it legally in California the primary barrier for it being legal is the emissions going by this:

That about right? Then if I understand things correctly then purely importing it into the US shouldn't be an issue so long as it meets the national requirements, however in order for me to actually register it in the California/Make it emissions compliant I'm going to need to do an engine swap on it?
Well, you are kind of all over the map there. You can import a Defender that's in stock condition if it's older than 25 years... into the USA.

You will not be able to register it legally for operation in California unless you can meet the very few ways at the very beginning of this thread. An engine swap is one of those ways.
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  #144  
Old October 4th, 2016, 01:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navydevildoc View Post
Well, you are kind of all over the map there. You can import a Defender that's in stock condition if it's older than 25 years... into the USA.

You will not be able to register it legally for operation in California unless you can meet the very few ways at the very beginning of this thread. An engine swap is one of those ways.
Ok. That gives me a place to start then. One thing that I am probably needlessly worrying myself over, but it shouldn't be an issue to actually import it into and receive it in California(Port of Long Beach/LA). Right? I just need to go pick it up(tow it or put it on a trailer) and swap the engine to something that is Cali Emission compliant to so I may register it for use?

Please forgive me if I'm being a bit redundant, just trying to figure out a basic road map for this before going too far into things. Its just that these things check pretty much all the boxes for what I look for in a vehicle and I've been looking at them off and on for a while. Don't want to get my hopes up too quickly.

Edit: And 'All over the map'? How I framed the question I'm guessing?
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  #145  
Old October 4th, 2016, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PseudoSim View Post
Ok. That gives me a place to start then. One thing that I am probably needlessly worrying myself over, but it shouldn't be an issue to actually import it into and receive it in California(Port of Long Beach/LA). Right? I just need to go pick it up(tow it or put it on a trailer) and swap the engine to something that is Cali Emission compliant to so I may register it for use?

Please forgive me if I'm being a bit redundant, just trying to figure out a basic road map for this before going too far into things. Its just that these things check pretty much all the boxes for what I look for in a vehicle and I've been looking at them off and on for a while. Don't want to get my hopes up too quickly.

Edit: And 'All over the map'? How I framed the question I'm guessing?
Well, you threw "NAS" into the mix in your original question, which kind of threw me for a loop. NAS trucks are already here, and the Defender you would import isn't a NAS, it's a ROW (Rest of World). Once I re-read the whole question and ignored that part it made sense. But yeah I was confused by the question at first.

As far as importing, you are really going to want to use the services of someone that does this a lot. There is a lot of red tape and paperwork that have to be done right, and they will know how to do it. If you screw something up it can take weeks or months to fix it; or worse they will impound or crush your truck.

There are a few guys on here that do importing. It is worth the time and money to talk to them about it.

Back to the California problems, yes you can do an engine swap and get it cleared by the Smog Referee. Much like the importing, there are tips and tricks with this, so make sure you are using someone who has done this in the past, and has a working relationship with the Referee.
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  #146  
Old October 4th, 2016, 02:26 PM
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Just a FYI samer on the board here did a swap to a older Range Rover engine and could still not get his 110 registered in california might be worth finding out why
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  #147  
Old October 4th, 2016, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjstahl3 View Post
Just a FYI samer on the board here did a swap to a older Range Rover engine and could still not get his 110 registered in california might be worth finding out why
Ill look into it. Right now though Ive been looking into just seeing what has worked well with other people in regards to engine swaps and compiling a list to work from... interestingly there are a lot of Japanese brands that repeatedly come up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by navydevildoc View Post
Well, you threw "NAS" into the mix in your original question, which kind of threw me for a loop. NAS trucks are already here, and the Defender you would import isn't a NAS, it's a ROW (Rest of World). Once I re-read the whole question and ignored that part it made sense. But yeah I was confused by the question at first.
Ah, thanks for correcting me on that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by navydevildoc View Post
As far as importing, you are really going to want to use the services of someone that does this a lot. There is a lot of red tape and paperwork that have to be done right, and they will know how to do it. If you screw something up it can take weeks or months to fix it; or worse they will impound or crush your truck.

There are a few guys on here that do importing. It is worth the time and money to talk to them about it.

Back to the California problems, yes you can do an engine swap and get it cleared by the Smog Referee. Much like the importing, there are tips and tricks with this, so make sure you are using someone who has done this in the past, and has a working relationship with the Referee.
Another thing on this list and a good point. Better to spend a bit more to do it right(or more accurately have some else do it right) so you dont end up with a pile of scrap or worse.

Speaking of importers... I got an email from ClassicLRParts claiming he was an importer but trying to independently confirm this resulted in pretty much nada. He says to call him in the email and in another thread for more details and information but... well this is the age of the internet where you need to have a healthy level of paranoia.

Asside from him though, are there any resources on here that I can check for an importer? I did a quick search but didnt find anything (though that was likely an err on my part).

Also, I found this while hunting around for more info on cali importing...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal View Post
I'm in California now. It can't be done; The import officer will tell you that you can import the truck as long as it is over 25 years old and he will be right. The real issue is that you cant register any imported vehicles that have been made after 1975 in California. It has nothing to do with being able to import it or not. NAS means North American Spec (as in commercially sold in America). You either have to buy an NAS, or import a Series Rover built before 1975. Otherwise you risk buying and importing a giant metal paperweight.

The only recommendation I would make is to buy an old Series from before smog, then mod it to look like a Defender. That will be your cheapest and safest option as it can be registered, and it wont need smog.
Can anyone confirm this(The bolded portion)?
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  #148  
Old October 4th, 2016, 11:47 PM
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Chris does your 110 wear a "Rvrlndr" plate? Keep seeing one around
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  #149  
Old October 5th, 2016, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PseudoSim View Post

Can anyone confirm this(The bolded portion)?
He means unmodified. They are correct, the whole point of this thread.

If you fix the drivetrain and the emissions control systems, you can get it registered.
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  #150  
Old October 6th, 2016, 01:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjstahl3 View Post
Just a FYI samer on the board here did a swap to a older Range Rover engine and could still not get his 110 registered in california might be worth finding out why
Jay is right. I unfortunately did not have any luck with the referee at the Costa Mesa (Orange Coast College) station. The 1st warning flag was that my truck was a right hand drive model, which automatically put the referee on the offensive, because he obviously knew that this was an import.

My truck was a 1986 D110 in which I dropped a complete engine out of a 1994 D90 NAS truck, which meant that the engine was already CARB compliant. I additionally installed:

- the proper charcoal canister (from a NAS truck)
- gas fill neck/cap (from a NAS truck)
- CARB compliant Catalytic converters
- brand new oxygen sensors, etc.,

in short everything to make this truck California legal, and the 1st thing out of the referee's mouth was that I needed to take the truck to a "lab" in order to "convert it" and test it. He didn't even bother to check if any of the components on there were CARB compliant. He even took a picture of the engine bay and sent it to his "supervisor" to validate his answer.

I tried to explain that nothing needs "conversion" because the engine was already a US 50-state legal engine, to no avail. This whole process took less than 10 minutes, and I was sent packing.

My advice based on this one time experience, is the following:

- try to import a left hand vehicle if you can, in order to eliminate one negative out of the equation. This is not to say that the referee won't recognize it as an import, but it's one less thing working against you
- document the engine swap, and any other related work you do on the truck and bring it with you, starting with the purchase/source of the engine, and the labor to have the swap done (preferably by a mechanic)
- try to find a referee station and a referee that has gone through this process before. I got the feeling that the referee I dealt with that day, had no clue about what's going on. Those referees are contracted by the state, and they generally deal with failed smog inspections, out of state cars coming into California, but not many import car registration issues.

The process and the law IN MY OPINION are clear and straight forward. If you do an engine swap in California and you use all CARB compliant components, the referee should be able to slap a CARB sticker on your car and render everything legal, without having to go to a lab and spend thousands of dollars. After all, you are not trying to convert a ROW engine into a Federal and CARB compliant engine.
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  #151  
Old October 19th, 2016, 12:19 PM
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So it seems the cheapest option is to buy a ROW Defender and then get an engine swap and find a good referee to take a look at your defender.
Baring that, buy a ROW Defender then go to the Santa Ana Carb lab and have them do the "work".
Or buy a NAS Defender
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  #152  
Old October 24th, 2016, 06:57 PM
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You could leave California.
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  #153  
Old October 24th, 2016, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seaswood View Post
You could leave California.
This comment helps no one.
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  #154  
Old October 24th, 2016, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PseudoSim View Post
Can anyone confirm this(The bolded portion)?
That is correctly stated - we are bonded importers and the import requirements are Federal, the registration requirements are State specific.

One does not import to California, you would be importing into the United States of America.

One does not register in California, unless CARB says OK...
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  #155  
Old October 24th, 2016, 08:34 PM
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I may be getting orders to CA. Would I be SOL trying to register my NAS110 with a 2.8 conversion?

Might be better off keeping it registered in FL.
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  #156  
Old October 24th, 2016, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Wolf Fabrication View Post
I may be getting orders to CA. Would I be SOL trying to register my NAS110 with a 2.8 conversion?

Might be better off keeping it registered in FL.
I don't see you having any issue. I've known many people with diesel NAS trucks including 97s and they have had no issue.

Does your title show the engine was updated?
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  #157  
Old October 24th, 2016, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Wolf Fabrication View Post
I may be getting orders to CA. Would I be SOL trying to register my NAS110 with a 2.8 conversion?

Might be better off keeping it registered in FL.
Keep it registered in Florida. Why pay CA any more then you should! Overpriced here. Especially if you are military you can legally do it

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  #158  
Old October 31st, 2016, 09:57 PM
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Hi,

I'm looking to import one of these LR Defenders, pre or equal to 1991. I really appreciate all the knowledge you guys have left on this forum thread. I'm still a little confused though...

AFAIK, the conditions for importing into the States are relatively straightforward if the vehicle is >25 years old. OK, fine.

I do live in CA, so it's my preference to have it registered in CA, of course. Looking at the dmv.ca site, it says that a vehicle is smog exempt if it meets any one of the following requirements ( per https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/vr/smogfaq ):
  • Gasoline powered 1975 year model or older
  • Diesel powered 1997 year model and older or with a Gross Vehicle Weight rating (GVWR) of more than 14,000 lbs
  • Electric
  • Natural gas powered with a GVWR rating of more than 14,000 lbs.
  • Motorcycle

Doesn't this mean that if I get a 1991 or older **DIESEL** D90 or D110, then I'll be able to register it in CA?

However, re-reading Navydevildoc's original post:
"Emissions Compliance and a Smog Check are two different, yet related things. Every vehicle sold in California has been inspected for California Emissions Compliance. This is done behind the scenes before the vehicle is even sold, and is totally handled by the manufacturer. This is what gains you the sticker on the truck that says it meets California requirements. Smog Checks are periodic inspections to make sure your vehicle still complies with the requirements that were in effect at the time of manufacture of your vehicle. Just because an older Diesel doesn't have to have a smog check doesn't mean they didn't have emissions control requirements; it just means the state doesn't require you to prove it's still in compliance year after year. However a vehicle being imported must demonstrate it meets the requirements in place at the time of the engine's manufacture (see section 44202 above)."

It says emissions is different from smog compliance. I've never heard of such a thing, but I guess I'll believe it. Does this mean that if I get it imported to CA, it could be stuck there, unable to be drayaged (verb?). Suppose I import it into CA, with plans to drive it to Oregon, and get it registered there?
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  #159  
Old November 3rd, 2016, 04:12 PM
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asked To Repost This Here:

Got my rhd 200tdi 83 110 cali legal, I chose some slightly less ostentatious plates this time around tho.


For thoes wondering, I just took my ny title to a third party dmv courier service. He said as long as I owned it in another state first for two years and it was never cali registered it was all good. They did a vin verification right there and asked me engine type (gas/diesel). He stated that grey market didn't matter, rhd didn't matter, and a non US vin didn't matter. He also said that some specialty vehicles like this will only get registered on a serial number because they don't have vins.

So really truly your mileage may vary

I think that this would be nearly impossible with a fresh import.
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  #160  
Old November 3rd, 2016, 04:56 PM
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How long ago did you get you California registration? Have you taken it in for a periodic smog test since then and how did that go?

Mike & Carrie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naplm00 View Post
asked To Repost This Here:

Got my rhd 200tdi 83 110 cali legal, I chose some slightly less ostentatious plates this time around tho.


For thoes wondering, I just took my ny title to a third party dmv courier service. He said as long as I owned it in another state first for two years and it was never cali registered it was all good. They did a vin verification right there and asked me engine type (gas/diesel). He stated that grey market didn't matter, rhd didn't matter, and a non US vin didn't matter. He also said that some specialty vehicles like this will only get registered on a serial number because they don't have vins.

So really truly your mileage may vary

I think that this would be nearly impossible with a fresh import.
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