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  #1  
Old May 16th, 2016, 09:29 PM
Towns03
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Talking Defender USA engine swap - best option

Hello DS folks!


I've had a few 110s now and love 'em. What great trucks and the perfect hunting rig! The only thing that I find that's lacking is HP... Where's the power?!? How did so many people deal with the 2.5NA for so long?? I think it's time to wade into the world of engine swaps.


I see there's no shortage of old discos and range rovers available around town. Is there a consensus on which engine/transmission is the easiest swap into an ex-MOD defender? I've found a few threads and videos showing people swapping with a 200 and 300 TDI, but what about the USA gassers? How easy does everything mate up with a 4.0L or 4.4L? Does anyone have experience with that??


Thanks in advance!
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  #2  
Old May 16th, 2016, 09:32 PM
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rover nirvana...

GM Gen 4 conversion including LS - Defender Source
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  #3  
Old May 16th, 2016, 09:43 PM
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Most straightforward, rover diesel for rover diesel.

Least expensive rover gas for rover diesel (unless you find a 200tdi)

Most expensive LS swap, but most fun!
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  #4  
Old May 16th, 2016, 09:52 PM
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One of these strapped behind the TC should help:

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Old May 16th, 2016, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NPT90 View Post
Most straightforward, rover diesel for rover diesel.

Least expensive rover gas for rover diesel (unless you find a 200tdi)

Most expensive LS swap, but most fun!
not necessarily the most expensive.. You can find a Gen IV motor on craigslist for $1k or you could opt for a brand new crate motor for $10k plus... there is an LS to suit almost every budget
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Old May 16th, 2016, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackField View Post
One of these strapped behind the TC should help:
When I fly turboprop, I prefer PT6.

Back to the original question. Gas or diesel.
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Old May 16th, 2016, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix37 View Post
not necessarily the most expensive.. You can find a Gen IV motor on craigslist for $1k or you could opt for a brand new crate motor for $10k plus... there is an LS to suit almost every budget
That's sort of the cost. Gauges, wiring, fabrication, auxiliaries, adapter, ecu, and time make it the most expensive option IMO
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  #8  
Old May 16th, 2016, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NPT90 View Post
That's sort of the cost. Gauges, wiring, fabrication, auxiliaries, adapter, ecu, and time make it the most expensive option IMO
But prob the best return on investment if your looking for decent HP, and if you go GenIII with a NV4500 then costs can be fairly conservative. You can also keep it simple & reliable with a new or reworked stand-alone harness and if you use an internal clutch slave the Hooker cast headers will fit just fine.

Food for thought
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  #9  
Old May 16th, 2016, 10:47 PM
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Red face

I'm on page 11 of the LS swap thread. my eyes are going crossed trying to keep up with all the mods and plugs and pedals, and programs... haha


I guess I'm in the market for a 200 or 300tdi...
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  #10  
Old May 16th, 2016, 10:52 PM
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It would be nice to see a real and unbiased cost and labour estimate for what is required for a gen 4 swap. What is the cost for the conversion parts beyond what you will get from a wrecked pickup? How many hours for a good and knowledgeable person to do the swap?
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  #11  
Old May 16th, 2016, 11:01 PM
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Question

Will a gas LR engine from a LR3 or Disco mate right up with engine mounts and the transfer case of my RHD 110?? can anyone offer specifics on these options?


Thanks!
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  #12  
Old May 16th, 2016, 11:07 PM
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Pretty sure the 200 is the most straight forward swap we did it in a weekend with adding power steering.
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  #13  
Old May 16th, 2016, 11:41 PM
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If I find I need a replacement engine (currently 1 300Tdi and 1 2.5NA) I will seriously consider a Mercedes OM617. I like diesel. I like 'one wire to run' diesels.

I'm still surprised how little this Forum talks about the 3.5L diesels in Australia.

Mike
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  #14  
Old May 17th, 2016, 06:51 AM
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Our suburban =13 years and 200k miles with zero problems mechanically. If it needs something I take it to a cheap shop anywhereUSA.

My LR's take thought and planning, Rover friends and this site to keep them on the road.

I think of them like employees. One shows up to work everyday without fail. The other calls in sick twice a week and there's always a different excuse.
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  #15  
Old May 17th, 2016, 07:19 AM
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Any out-of-the-box conversion is going to be time consuming or costly.... usually both. The LSx is the new "go to" and for good reason but it isn't quick or cheap. I may well have the original LS1 conversion sitting in my garage but it is full on custom and cost a shiny penny. If you want a V8 there aren't many choices that come easy but I think the 4.0 GEMS makes a fine platform if super duper HP isn't desired. I've built a long block that I'm going to pin for giggles. I'm sticking one into my '84 110 or '90 RRC. The other will get the '96 LT1 and 4L65E. Why? Because they're both paid for and a great conversion option. The iron LT1 only weighs 100 lbs more than an aluminum LSx too. Shown is the adapter in progress for the LT230. The chunk in the lathe will be the extension to push the 4l65E away from the LT230 for pan clearance. The cast part of the finished bit is Novak-Adapt's original 4L60E to Dana 300 adapter I designed many years ago being repurposed. Spud shaft to come...
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I need to go back to work for the break. Retirement is exhausting!

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Old May 17th, 2016, 07:30 AM
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That's nice work Mark.
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Old May 17th, 2016, 07:48 AM
ezzzzzzz
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Yet another option which is really easy is a flat adapter for bolting a LSx bellhousing to a ZF. The engine/bellhousing spacer, racing flywheel and custom pilot bushing are needed too. The Gen I and II V8's produce good power but can be tamed so as not to destroy a ZF. The stock LT1 or Vortec is a good match.
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I need to go back to work for the break. Retirement is exhausting!

'71 IIA 88" LS1 hybrid
'84 110 5 door 'Nigerian Princess'
'90 RRC
'97 D1 LSE (parting out)
'02 D2 Kalahari
'02 D2 SE
'02 D2 SE
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  #18  
Old May 17th, 2016, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
It would be nice to see a real and unbiased cost and labour estimate for what is required for a gen 4 swap. What is the cost for the conversion parts beyond what you will get from a wrecked pickup? How many hours for a good and knowledgeable person to do the swap?
yeah I've tried to piece this together as best I can and ultimately found that the 300 tdi install costs around $6500 if installed by owner. I can't speak on the LS other than what I briefly priced via Google and this forum. The matter of time is a completely different story as you effectively re-use most of your wiring and other parts even on a 300 tdi swap from a 2.5na.
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Old May 17th, 2016, 08:01 AM
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I am no fan of Land Rover engines, especially the V8 for reliability.
Will have run the rover TDI diesels, but for the ease of conversion, not because they are any real thing to write home about.

We have 3 110s that all started life with a 4 cylinder rover petrol or n/a diesel.
We ran a Mercedes OM617 Turbo Diesel in one.
An Isuzu 4JB1-T (2.8 Liter 4 cylinder TD from a Trooper - NOT A BIG BOX TRUCK engine) in another
An Iveco 2.8 Liter 4 cylinder TD from a Daily (Same engine as a Land Rover Santana PS10).
The Isuzu and Iveco are very fast and extremely reliable.

The Mercedes OM617 is often referred to as the most reliable and durable engine ever manufactured.
It was built from 1975 to 2001 and used in Trucks, Vans, Cars, SUVs, and Military Vehicles like the haglund tracked units.
They ave very cheap and are in most junk yards because the vehicle rusted out, transmission failed, or some other non-engine related issue took them off the road.
IN 1976-77 Mercedes ran this engine in a race car and set more world records that any other engine before or after.
USA models are tuned to pass air pollution testing robbing them of a lot of potential power, but even in this state of tuning the US Stock MW-IP vehicles are roughly twice as fast as a 2.5 n/a.
With the M-IP the factory was getting roughly 230 HP with a intercooled turbo version.
We have a member, Howard coming this way in a week or so to have his pump dialed in timing wise and adjusted.
He has a full length intercooler with an externally regulated ALDA in a 110.
We are thinking he'll get around 250 HP, but this has not been proven.
There are people drifting the 123 bodied Mercedes with a hopped up OM617 that can spin the tires and lift up the front wheels, but we'll see what Howard's setup does.
It smoked the stock clutch and he upgraded to an R380 Stumpy to help deal with the power.

The other interesting thing about the OM617 is the multi-fuel flexibility of the indirect injection.
It runs on diesel, WVO, UCO, hydraulic fluid, gear oil, and even old gasoline with no missing or extreme performance loss.

In my experience, the 4JB1-T and Iveco 2.8 TD are extremely tunable and much smoother than a Rover TDI.
In a tuned state with an intercooler the speed increases about 10 MPH per second... lots of get up and go and will run faster than you want to drive, so there is no flat spot at the top end.
85 MPH is cruising speed.

------ Follow up post added May 17th, 2016 08:06 AM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ezzzzzzz View Post
Yet another option which is really easy is a flat adapter for bolting a LSx bellhousing to a ZF. The engine/bellhousing spacer, racing flywheel and custom pilot bushing are needed too. The Gen I and II V8's produce good power but can be tamed so as not to destroy a ZF. The stock LT1 or Vortec is a good match.
The retired muthalikkas have the time to take a few quick pictures...
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UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #20  
Old May 17th, 2016, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NPT90 View Post
yeah I've tried to piece this together as best I can and ultimately found that the 300 tdi install costs around $6500 if installed by owner. I can't speak on the LS other than what I briefly priced via Google and this forum. The matter of time is a completely different story as you effectively re-use most of your wiring and other parts even on a 300 tdi swap from a 2.5na.
Is $6500 an all in one motion pull and drop conversion over the weekend and deal with the rest another day? Or does that include a budget for checking the unknown condition of internals and doing seals and gaskets and freeze plugs type of conversion while you can reach them? I personally way over paid for the shit-lump I bought and thank god I didn't toss it in without going through it. Nothing appeared it would have lasted more that a couple hundred miles without a complete disaster.
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