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  #21  
Old May 17th, 2016, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NPT90 View Post
yeah I've tried to piece this together as best I can and ultimately found that the 300 tdi install costs around $6500 if installed by owner. I can't speak on the LS other than what I briefly priced via Google and this forum. The matter of time is a completely different story as you effectively re-use most of your wiring and other parts even on a 300 tdi swap from a 2.5na.
You guys are right... LS swaps cost a fortune, take forever, require an incredible level of expertise to install and once complete the vehicles are infinitely more valuable.
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  #22  
Old May 17th, 2016, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix37 View Post
You guys are right... LS swaps cost a fortune, take forever, require an incredible level of expertise to install and once complete the vehicles are infinitely more valuable.
meh. I don't think you can speak to the market as there haven't been that many LS swaps that have gone to market. I highly doubt (with any custom work) you ever get a true return. If I am in the OPs seat I buy a 200 tdi and call it a day. The only reason I went with a 300tdi is because my transmission was toast and my frame was rotten. Even with the LS option I'm not sure that's the route I would go but I'm a fan of diesel.

I'm pretty sure no one that doesn't own a shop really makes money on re-powering anything. We all know someone who spends a fortune putting a hemi into their classic car and quickly finds cost far surpasses their initial estimates and they are praying to break even when they sell the vehicle.

------ Follow up post added May 17th, 2016 07:43 AM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1of40 View Post
Is $6500 an all in one motion pull and drop conversion over the weekend and deal with the rest another day? Or does that include a budget for checking the unknown condition of internals and doing seals and gaskets and freeze plugs type of conversion while you can reach them? I personally way over paid for the shit-lump I bought and thank god I didn't toss it in without going through it. Nothing appeared it would have lasted more that a couple hundred miles without a complete disaster.
it's a spitball. $6500 assumes a well sorted TDI and a rebuilt transmission.
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  #23  
Old May 17th, 2016, 09:48 AM
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Frank Rafka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix37 View Post
You guys are right... LS swaps cost a fortune, take forever, require an incredible level of expertise to install and once complete the vehicles are infinitely more valuable.
So what did you spend on the swap…

We dropped a LR 14cux-auto zf in a 110 in a weekend, total cost after with having the donor engine re-built was $2200, all in including a Ashcroft center console for the shifter. Truck does 80 on the highway all day long with 1.2 tcase
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  #24  
Old May 17th, 2016, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
I am no fan of Land Rover engines, especially the V8 for reliability.
Will have run the rover TDI diesels, but for the ease of conversion, not because they are any real thing to write home about.

We have 3 110s that all started life with a 4 cylinder rover petrol or n/a diesel.
We ran a Mercedes OM617 Turbo Diesel in one.
An Isuzu 4JB1-T (2.8 Liter 4 cylinder TD from a Trooper - NOT A BIG BOX TRUCK engine) in another
An Iveco 2.8 Liter 4 cylinder TD from a Daily (Same engine as a Land Rover Santana PS10).
The Isuzu and Iveco are very fast and extremely reliable.

The Mercedes OM617 is often referred to as the most reliable and durable engine ever manufactured.
It was built from 1975 to 2001 and used in Trucks, Vans, Cars, SUVs, and Military Vehicles like the haglund tracked units.
They ave very cheap and are in most junk yards because the vehicle rusted out, transmission failed, or some other non-engine related issue took them off the road.
.


thanks!


Will the Isuzu and Mercedes engine bolt up to my 177? if no, how extensive is are the mods?


It looks like there are tons of the OM617s around. do I need the turbo? What radiator do I
run?
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  #25  
Old May 17th, 2016, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix37 View Post
You guys are right... LS swaps cost a fortune, take forever, require an incredible level of expertise to install and once complete the vehicles are infinitely more valuable.
is there a sarcasm emoji?
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  #26  
Old May 17th, 2016, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Towns03 View Post
thanks!


Will the Isuzu and Mercedes engine bolt up to my 177? if no, how extensive is are the mods?


It looks like there are tons of the OM617s around. do I need the turbo? What radiator do I
run?
I have produced complete kits for a bolt in scenario for the Mercedes OM617, 4JB1-T, and Iveco.
You will want the turbo version.
In USA the OM617 went into all the 300SD models from 1978 - 1985. the 300D, 300CD, and 300TD from 1982 - 1985.
There is a thread here on the OM617 and I think ones on the 4JB1-T and Iveco 2.8 TD.
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  #27  
Old May 17th, 2016, 10:20 AM
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Robert's diesel conversions are as complete as they come. If you go that direction you'll be pleased with the results. The non-LR engines really perform well!
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  #28  
Old May 17th, 2016, 01:28 PM
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With a 2.5NA I feel the easiest upgrades would be a 200tdi or OM617 as you don't have to mess with the frame engine mounts.

Robert's OM617 conversion kit is very nice and very complete. I don't know the price off the top of my head but should be in the $4k range. Running OM617's engine are available for $1k.

The reason I went with the OM617:
- Engine availability. I bought mine for $700 and listened to it before the yard pulled it. The boneyard was an hour away from my house.
- Parts availability.
- Available Performance Upgrades - not cheap but I have a IP and turbo waiting to go in. I am in about $2k for the pieces. But...any mods to a diesel are not going to be cheap (we have a F250 with a 7.3 and $2k can go to just a bigger turbo alone)
- Shops that know and will work on them. The euro shop in the next town had no problem adjusting the valves on my OM617 a few months ago. I still need to see if they will swap the IP but there is the Mercedes only garage 2 towns over that can be a back up. According to thread on here the euro shop wouldn't touch a 200/300tdi.
- I was able to use all LR parts besides the engine. R380 after the engine. 200tdi radiator/oil cooler/IC for the front. I did change to a Taurus fan but I used Red90's write-up where he did it on his 200tdi. Wiring is for a 300tdi but you don't need much for these engines (One Wire For The Win).
- I can always go to a 200tdi easily if I wanted/needed total LR drivetrain.
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  #29  
Old May 17th, 2016, 01:53 PM
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I spent $4500 for my 200TDI, which included a new radiator, used Intercooler and a new rad/Intercooler frame. It's also a Defender engine, not a disco version. By the time I spent money on a a new clutch, oil cooler lines, motor mounts, air box, new exhaust, miscellaneous parts, etc, I'm into the swap for over 6k easily. But it was fairly easy, this was my first motor swap but I did end up having a moonlighting Land Rover mechanic help me with the final install hooking it all up because didn't want to screw up anything after sinking that much $$$ in it. I was quoted $5500 for a 300TDI setup and I'm sure I would have spent another 2k on top of that. I'm really happy with the 200TDi in my 90, great power.

I considered the LS swap using Marks kit but running the numbers with a eBay used engine and trans I would be well over 10K with all the extra bits.
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  #30  
Old May 17th, 2016, 03:00 PM
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After doing the OM617 swap I'm probably out about $5000 after the conversion kit, engine, intercollegiate/rad, plumbing, and exhaust. That's a guess - I haven't totaled it up... But I can say that I felt like I was spending $150 at a time each week for months to get the install 'finished'. I consider it a good deal when I consider the flexibility I'll have when this engine finally goes. Unlike the other options, the most expensive part is done and will continue to last through multiple engines.
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  #31  
Old May 17th, 2016, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheway View Post
After doing the OM617 swap I'm probably out about $5000 after the conversion kit, engine, intercollegiate/rad, plumbing, and exhaust. That's a guess - I haven't totaled it up... But I can say that I felt like I was spending $150 at a time each week for months to get the install 'finished'. I consider it a good deal when I consider the flexibility I'll have when this engine finally goes. Unlike the other options, the most expensive part is done and will continue to last through multiple engines.
Dave:
That's a good point, that I didn't even consider mentioning...
After putting $3,550 into the kit, it is sustainable because it can be bolted to multiple engines that can be bought for cheap.
Our local pick-n-pull sells them for about $350.
Mercedes sold thousands and thousands of them.
Granted you have to remove them, but that's cheaper than a new 200TDI turbo and manifold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by don View Post
The reason I went with the OM617:
- Engine availability. I bought mine for $700 and listened to it before the yard pulled it. The boneyard was an hour away from my house.
- Parts availability.
- Available Performance Upgrades...
- Shops that know and will work on them.
- I was able to use all LR parts besides the engine...
Don:
All good points.
The parts are available, new and used through the dealer (new) and used (just about anywhere in the country).

My favorite thing about the OM617 is that off idle, it is as smooth as a V8 gasoline engine no matter how high the RPMs.
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  #32  
Old May 17th, 2016, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by don View Post
According to thread on here the euro shop wouldn't touch a 200/300tdi
Any shop scared of an old 8 valve 4 cylinder motor should be ashamed of themselves.
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  #33  
Old May 17th, 2016, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Towns03 View Post
thanks!


Will the Isuzu and Mercedes engine bolt up to my 177? if no, how extensive is are the mods?


It looks like there are tons of the OM617s around. do I need the turbo? What radiator do I
run?
You can run your stock radiator as it sits with an electric fan or swap over to the 200TDI radiator if you want the small TDI intercooler.
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #34  
Old May 17th, 2016, 08:34 PM
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This is just me but I believe in keeping the Rover all Rover; gutless diesel,warts and all.
You'll like a 2/300 Tdi over the 2.5. You won't win any speed contests.
It's part of the whole user experience imo.
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  #35  
Old May 17th, 2016, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by o2batsea View Post
This is just me but I believe in keeping the Rover all Rover.....

So I should ditch my Buick/Rover V8 for a real Rover motor?



.
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  #36  
Old May 17th, 2016, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Nomar View Post
So I should ditch my Buick/Rover V8 for a real Rover motor?



.
or a ford transit..
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  #37  
Old May 17th, 2016, 09:27 PM
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Or BMW or Isuzu.
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  #38  
Old May 17th, 2016, 10:17 PM
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Defender USA engine swap - best option

I put a ACR 4.8 Hi-Torque motor in my 1984 110. Great motor.


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  #39  
Old May 18th, 2016, 10:01 PM
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thanks for the input everyone!


is there a consensus on the best place to source a rebuilt 200 or 300tdi? and will that mate up with my 177 or will I need a transmission too?
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  #40  
Old May 18th, 2016, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Towns03 View Post
thanks for the input everyone!Is there a consensus on the best place to source a rebuilt 200 or 300tdi?
DO NOT buy one from the guy in Portland, OR. He goes by Zack Monsieur and several other names.

AFAIK, both the 200 & 300 were used in Defenders and Discoveries. You can transplant, but some of the parts are different.

Good luck!
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