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  #21  
Old September 30th, 2013, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by MonLand View Post
Likely the engine leak is neither emission not inspection. Not sure how your truck/engine, but I have heard many stories of D1 V8 4.0L being misdiagnosed with headgasket issues where "only" the valley pan gasket needed to be replaced (granted once you are doing the valley pan, easy to so the rest and easier to explain to anyone that does not turn wrenches).

2 cents!
Most dealerships do an MPI (multi point inspection) every time a vehicle comes into the shop, which is probably why the technician is trying to sell the head gasket job. Its a DII, the head gaskets would last about 40-60k miles from the factory...
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  #22  
Old September 30th, 2013, 08:52 PM
MonLand
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Originally Posted by Jymmiejamz View Post
Most dealerships do an MPI (multi point inspection) every time a vehicle comes into the shop, which is probably why the technician is trying to sell the head gasket job.
And I think this is what make a lot of folks think the dlrship is not fair and LR are not reliable and require so much maintenance. Until you ask for a lot of details, what is "must do" vs "nice to have" is never really clear (on purpose since they want to do the work).
Anyway, educated customer is always the best customer.
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  #23  
Old September 30th, 2013, 10:16 PM
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Jimmy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonLand View Post
And I think this is what make a lot of folks think the dlrship is not fair and LR are not reliable and require so much maintenance. Until you ask for a lot of details, what is "must do" vs "nice to have" is never really clear (on purpose since they want to do the work).
Anyway, educated customer is always the best customer.
I get that, but on the other hand, if a customer brings there car in and they get a multipoint inspection that says the the cooling system has no leaks, they will blame the dealer for not noticing the coolant leak when it overheats two weeks later. Pre 2005 Land Rovers do require a lot of maintenance, and they are not very reliable when compared to Asian cars of the same vintage. DII's should get head gaskets as part of the 60k mile servicing.
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  #24  
Old September 30th, 2013, 11:37 PM
kellykortman
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I see nothing wrong with buying parts online and then having a shop put them on for you, I do it all the time. They are making a fantastic labor rate usually in the 80-140 an hour range depending on their overhead. let them mark up your parts by 10%, I can buy parts at roverparts.com for a third of dealership prices, in essence the parts supplier rapes the garage and then they turn around and rape you but you end up getting raped twice. unless it's small or inconsequential I always buy my parts online. most times they ship for free too. good luck on passing inspection, I had 02 sensors put in on my rig, I needed 2, but got it done when getting a totally new exhaust system. best, Kelly
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  #25  
Old October 1st, 2013, 05:26 AM
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Tom Rowe
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O2 senors are about the cheapest at Amazon, about $50 w/free shipping.
Pre-cat
http://www.amazon.com/NGK-25623-Oxyg.../dp/B001PNEA70
Post-cat:
http://www.amazon.com/NGK-25624-Oxyg...ords=NTK+25624

Some places won't install parts you have, some will.
If they do there's always the risk of conflict if the part is defective, is it the part that's bad or the labor installing it? If they provide the part there shouldn't be any issue. Obviously the level of risk depends on the part.
If you need a new u-joint I'd definitely not put that off. Failure can lead to transmission destruction, depending on which it is.
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  #26  
Old October 1st, 2013, 06:13 AM
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1. Assuming that a CEL means you need o2 sensors is just plain silly, and generally the opinion of one who assumes a lot and understands little.
2. Dealerships generally have to do a zillion point inspection and make you aware of EVERY little thing that is wrong due to LIABILITY. The tech that does the inspection has some motivation as it is a business that sells shit just like any other, but in this flat rate world and with most or any warranty work they just get killed (the tech). I am surprised that so many dont understand this.
3. Buying your own parts. Again, the old liability comes into play. I have found that most of the time customers buying their own parts is ok other than half the time the parts are wrong or junk and it leads to additional cost for both parties as well as time lost, but if it makes people think they are saving money and that makes them happy then we are closer to a positive experience I'd guess.
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new expansion complete. Not only are we the only Rover shop in Eliot Maine...now we're also the biggest.

"Dedicated to the resurrection of junk through engineering?"
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  #27  
Old October 1st, 2013, 06:45 AM
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Trevor Griffiths
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The motronic engine management has a set of readiness monitors for things like evap, sai, cat monitoring, o2 sensor monitoring, o2 heaters, a total of 8. They reset in a sequence and often the last to reset are evap and/or SAI, which likley wont happen on a 10 minute test drive.
Front propshafts are notorious: worst case? Wholesale mechanical failure that takes a lot of expensive parts with it, possibly with repairs costs in excess of the D2's value.
Sure, bring your own parts. No warranty on the parts from me, and if the part is wrong, can I charge you for the time that my lift is now tied up while I wait for you to get the correct part and bring it to me? If I supplied the part, and it's defective or wrong, it's up to me to resolve the situation and that's a cost of doing business.
Some shops are also interested in developing a relationship based on communication and trust as well as selling their services. Communicate your needs and expectations, and trust that they will want to work in your best interest, so everyone is satisfied. Over and over again.

Just my .02
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  #28  
Old October 1st, 2013, 06:55 AM
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Chris
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Be better to point OP towards a good indie shop

Dealerships tend to lose interest on servicing older vehicles
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A friend of mine runs a land rover / range rover specialty repair shop. Based on his experience, they are capable of stopping anywhere, anytime, at any cost.

I don't know about the brakes, only their unreliability.
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  #29  
Old October 1st, 2013, 10:07 AM
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Tom Rowe
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I don't see where you mentioned what the fuel cap issue is. If it's just not sealing you can probably get a new o-ring at NAPA or the like (if it's like the D1 with an o-ring in it).
x2 on CEL not automatically meaning o2 sensors, just providing a link to good price if needed.
I'd be surprised if a 10 minute drive reset the monitors (I don't know if VA required them all to be in a ready state, GA doesn't). Pages 18-2-53 & 18-2-54 of the shop manual describe the various drive cycles needed to reset them. I don't know about DII's, but the D1 can be a PITA to get them to reset.
Sometimes, if you time it right (and depending on the actual issue), you can do nothing, clear the codes, do the drive cycle and pass emissions before the CEL comes on again. I've done that in my wife's '97 D1. Then work on fixing the problem while still being able to legally drive your vehicle.
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Atlanta, GA

Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck
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62 88 Regular
67 109 6cyl NADA x2
74 Lightweight - The Antichrist
95 DI 5-speed
95 D90 5-speed
97 D1 Automatic
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  #30  
Old October 1st, 2013, 10:16 AM
MonLand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antichrist View Post
I don't know if VA required them all to be in a ready state
VA needs all sensors/counters/stuff to be in ready state. Found that the hard way once. I basically drive with the OBD-2 reader connected to the truck until everything is reset, then I take it to the shop for testing... Painful since this takes some time and if you wait last minute, you might be late to the testing station and risk to get pulled over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antichrist View Post
I don't know about DII's, but the D1 can be a PITA to get them to reset.
Sometimes, if you time it right (and depending on the actual issue), you can do nothing, clear the codes, do the drive cycle and pass emissions before the CEL comes on again. I've done that in my wife's '97 D1. Then work on fixing the problem while still being able to legally drive your vehicle.
Same on my '96 D1. Most errors only bring the CEL when the issue has still been showing up after 3 engine-warmup-cool-down cycles. I know I have an heating element issue on one of my O2 sensors...
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  #31  
Old October 1st, 2013, 10:23 AM
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If it makes anyone feel better in regards to the CEL, my Honda civic has the CEL appear weekly. Ive never had one on my Defender in 87k and only a few on the Classic (O2 sensors)
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  #32  
Old October 1st, 2013, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junkyddog11 View Post
1. Assuming that a CEL means you need o2 sensors is just plain silly, and generally the opinion of one who assumes a lot and understands little.
Thanks Matt, but I do OK despite my weak mind.
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  #33  
Old October 1st, 2013, 11:22 AM
discotdi
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How is the dealership screwing you when all they did is diagnose problems like you asked them to? Now you know problems that need to be repaired. Are they holding your Disco hostage? Refusing to allow you to pick it up without doing repairs?

You know why the dealer gives you a laundry list of needed repairs? It's called CYA. 9/10 customers with out of warranty vehicles will blame the dealer for anything that happens to their car post dealer repairs. Even things that are not in any way related. They replace your O2 sensors and two weeks later your water pump fails, guess who gets the blame? The dealer. The dealer gets blamed for either directly breaking the part or for not noticing the problem. It's a no win.
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  #34  
Old October 1st, 2013, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discotdi View Post
The dealer gets blamed for either directly breaking the part or for not noticing the problem. It's a no win.
That is almost always the case! A good example from a couple weeks ago, a 2000 disco with 180k miles came in for a post purchase inspection. I gave an estimate for over $8k in repairs. They decided to fix just the bulbs that were burnt out. It came back a week later and they claimed that I broke their instrument cluster binnacle, which already had over-sized screws in it.

Its always the dealers fault. No customer would be daft enough to spend too much money purchasing an old Land Rover that might need repairs
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  #35  
Old October 1st, 2013, 12:15 PM
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Buying your own parts is always a double edges sword.

Yes, you can save money by buying your own stuff. However if said part fails for whatever reason, you can take it back and say, "Guys. Your part. Your problem."

Then again a lot of the stuff I get is NOS so time can really wear it down.

I have had my shop install stuff for me in the past. Usually because I bought it, then was too lazy to install it myself. However I use a local independent shop and I know the guy. So far, they are cool with the few times I've done that.
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  #36  
Old October 1st, 2013, 12:19 PM
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well i am not a doosh that would blame the dealer if they fixed my car and then something went wrong...by saying they are screwing me is when i looked online at typical costs for fixing items on a land rover, they were over $4k more just on the labor costs. Then on the parts, assuming that i buy everything required, they are another $1k. So to say that the dealer is screwing me is pretty accurate. The big ticket item on the bill was the headgasket, which it looks like i dont need to get done according to most of you, at $6k...the labor on that is overt $4k.

the check engine light needs to be off for 200 miles or so before the station will accept it as fixed...so i cant just hook up a tool to reset.

Everything i have read it looks like i just need to get the evap fixed for now and the rest can wait. The evap at the dealer is going to cost $400, which isnt bad in my mind, but i am figuring that all they are going to do is put on a gas cap and call it a day.
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  #37  
Old October 1st, 2013, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masfas2000 View Post
well i am not a doosh that would blame the dealer if they fixed my car and then something went wrong...by saying they are screwing me is when i looked online at typical costs for fixing items on a land rover, they were over $4k more just on the labor costs. Then on the parts, assuming that i buy everything required, they are another $1k. So to say that the dealer is screwing me is pretty accurate. The big ticket item on the bill was the headgasket, which it looks like i dont need to get done according to most of you, at $6k...the labor on that is overt $4k.

the check engine light needs to be off for 200 miles or so before the station will accept it as fixed...so i cant just hook up a tool to reset.

Everything i have read it looks like i just need to get the evap fixed for now and the rest can wait. The evap at the dealer is going to cost $400, which isnt bad in my mind, but i am figuring that all they are going to do is put on a gas cap and call it a day.
If you're referring to the purge valve, use the link I gave you. $80, I'll literally make a video for you to change it yourself.
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  #38  
Old October 1st, 2013, 12:26 PM
masfas2000
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is that all the evap is....the purge valve...because the part i was looking at looks like a tube that would run from the gas tank to the engine.
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  #39  
Old October 1st, 2013, 12:29 PM
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The purge valve is what commonly fails. The genuine Land Rover part replaces roughly 20" of hosing rather than the Bosch version that just replaces the faulty purge valve.
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  #40  
Old October 1st, 2013, 12:34 PM
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ok...i am a car moron...i know how to drive them and that is even a stretch...

what is required to fix this...i assume that i will need a pair of plyers to twist out the other valve?
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