D90 will not start possible ecu or wiring? - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old December 18th, 2014, 03:17 PM
richpmnelson
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D90 will not start possible ecu or wiring?

ok, i've spent alot of time troble shooting the fuel injection system on my 95' D90 3.9l v8.
it will not start due in part by the fuel pump(fp) not getting power and i'm not getting a check engine light in the on postion. the fp works if i hard wire at the relay, engine still would'nt start. using http://www.g33.co.uk/images/PDFS/14c..._injection.pdf to trobleshoot all signs point to the ecu, so i got a new/used one that has been "tested" with no change what so ever. plese help im thinking its a wiring issue but im not sure where.
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  #2  
Old December 18th, 2014, 05:09 PM
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spark at the coil?..... ?

crank but wont start or doesn't crank??

lights and lights come on when you turn the key???

Head lights work???


ground to frame good???
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  #3  
Old December 18th, 2014, 05:15 PM
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1: how long have you owned the vehicle?
2: did it run fine previously?
3: did you change anything before it wouldn't start? Or were you working in a specific are before it wouldn't work?
4: describe the sequence better as ron pointed out above. Will it crank? If no, check connection at starter, ignition switch, starter itself, etc.
5: is it cranking? If yes, do you have spark?
6: if it sparks, are you getting fuel (sounds like yes)?
7: if it sparks, is it a strong or weak spark?
8: if it is not sparking (more things to check) check the integrity of the connections at the coil. From recent discussions, white wire from coil communicates back to ECU.
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  #4  
Old December 18th, 2014, 05:55 PM
richpmnelson
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yes spark at the coil,cranks but wont start, all lights work exept check engine light, head lights wouldnt turn on unless engine is running and the ground is good.

owned for 3 years as daily driver, fuel pump replaced a few months ago, main and pump relay replaced about a month ago, a few weeks ago it died wile running, ive been working on it since.
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  #5  
Old December 18th, 2014, 07:00 PM
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Kevin Keith
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IIRC… aren't the main & FP relays slightly different? Maybe they got swapped and now one or both are bad.
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  #6  
Old December 18th, 2014, 07:40 PM
richpmnelson
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sorry kevin both relays are the same, plus i have 5-6 extra relays i have tested with. if i ground the #16 wire on the computer plug and turn on the ignition the fp relay kicks on but no fire.
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  #7  
Old December 18th, 2014, 08:00 PM
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Kevin Keith
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If you're referring to the standard 'silver relay'… the FP relay is different. I couldn't remember if the main EFI relay was the same as the FP. Looks similar but the original had a red slash for easier identification. I forget what the difference is… something about a diode difference. There's a Napa FP crossover… Napa relay AR-274
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Old December 18th, 2014, 10:17 PM
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White wire to the cool is loose ...
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  #9  
Old December 19th, 2014, 12:59 AM
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White wire on coil is secure with no corrosion.
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  #10  
Old December 19th, 2014, 02:57 AM
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Check the resistor in line at the mass air flow sensor . White wires with black strips , unplug it and jump the two wires and then try and restart .
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  #11  
Old December 19th, 2014, 08:41 AM
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Its gotta have fuel and spark to run. Check for a good hot blue spark at a plug wire, not just the coil as caps and rotors have been known to go bad. The fuel pump should only run for a few seconds when you turn the key on. Make sure you have 35psi at the fuel rail just before you try to start. Not suggesting you do this but for a quick test, I sometimes will get someone to crank the engine and I will spray a little carb cleaner or starting fluid directly in the intake. If it fires a few times then I know it probably isn't an ignition problem.
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  #12  
Old December 19th, 2014, 08:55 AM
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2x on a shot quick starting fluid. Simplest way to rule out ignition and focus elsewhere.
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  #13  
Old December 19th, 2014, 10:12 AM
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Ignition timing?
That year model didn't have crank or cam sensors did it? Rules that out?
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  #14  
Old December 19th, 2014, 10:15 AM
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No crank sensors on '95s. You could always check timing, but it'd be a shame to fiddle with that if the likelihood of your dizzy creeping is low, and you hadn't touched it previously.
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  #15  
Old December 19th, 2014, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richpmnelson View Post
White wire on coil is secure with no corrosion.
you need to test you get a signal on pin 39 on the ECU ... there is a resistor in line ... if it's dead then the signal won't get through.
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  #16  
Old December 19th, 2014, 10:51 AM
richpmnelson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aka rover View Post
Check the resistor in line at the mass air flow sensor . White wires with black strips , unplug it and jump the two wires and then try and restart .
the resistor from the mass air flow sensor(MAFS) is on a blue wire w/ red stripe. the resistor you are describing is the ecu to coil resistor (or "chicklet" as metioned in a thread i have seen). regadless, i have yet to check the MAFS resistor and i thank you for the suggestion.

------ Follow up post added December 19th, 2014 07:54 AM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by leastonce View Post
you need to test you get a signal on pin 39 on the ECU ... there is a resistor in line ... if it's dead then the signal won't get through.
pin 39 reads 9.5 volts(coming from the coil) its the only hot pin that dosent read battery volts.

if i put fuel or starter fluid directly in the intake, the engine fires up for a few seconds.
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  #17  
Old December 19th, 2014, 11:55 AM
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I take it you do not smell gas? Do you hear the fuel pump run?

You need a signal from the ignition module to get the ecu to fire the injectors. I had this happen on my 95 and replacing the ignition module fixed it. Much less likely it could be the pick up in the distributor.

At this point, I would just start replacing parts until it runs. I have posted a bunch of "ron good" trouble shooting methods which make professionals cringe, but seem to work fine for me.
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  #18  
Old December 19th, 2014, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richpmnelson View Post
the resistor from the mass air flow sensor(MAFS) is on a blue wire w/ red stripe. the resistor you are describing is the ecu to coil resistor (or "chicklet" as metioned in a thread i have seen). regadless, i have yet to check the MAFS resistor and i thank you for the suggestion.
FYI both of the 95s in the shop are white wires black strip .



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94 D90 ST R380 constine green stock
85 D110 3.5 3 DR
67 NADA diesel tremec 4spd salisbury rear springs on front and a LOT MORE TO GO.

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  #19  
Old December 19th, 2014, 03:31 PM
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This will stop fuel delivery
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95 D90 SW 4.6 ARBs 8274 37" BFGs Gigglepin twin motor 8274
94 D90 ST R380 constine green stock
85 D110 3.5 3 DR
67 NADA diesel tremec 4spd salisbury rear springs on front and a LOT MORE TO GO.

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  #20  
Old December 19th, 2014, 05:03 PM
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Disconnect battery - . Pull the connector free of the ECU. Reconnect battery -. Check for 12v at pin 16 of the ECU. If it's not there your problem is between the battery+ and ignition switch. If there then turn key to run. Check for 12v at pin 19. If not there but is at pin 16 you've got a bad ignition switch or local wiring problem. If you're not getting a check engine light (even with the ECU swap) you're probably not getting 12v through the ignition switch. That also allows the fuel pump relay to kick in. You're looking well beyond the trouble area.
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