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  #1  
Old March 12th, 2012, 01:30 PM
Swede7000
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Karl
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D90 Oil Pan

Been starting to work on the D90 in preparation for summer. Dropped the oil pan to replace the non existent gasket (just clear bathroom caulk!!!!). This vehicle sits for long periods of time and last year rarely was used. In the pan there is white gunk that is in certain areas of the pan. I'm a little bit convinced this is just condensation but never having seen this before I though it was a bit much? The drained oil looks good with no signs of discoloration. I just would like to know if what you folks see in the pic looks normal or is this a sign of something else?

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

Thanks,

Karl
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  #2  
Old March 12th, 2012, 02:02 PM
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Joe Still
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I'd wonder about head gasket leaks into crankcase. I'm sorry to say it but many (gas) D90's that age have had head gaskets done and that oil didn't turn white for no reason.

Ever have any overheating issues?
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  #3  
Old March 12th, 2012, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red&yellowrovers View Post
I'd wonder about head gasket leaks into crankcase. I'm sorry to say it but many (gas) D90's that age have had head gaskets done and that oil didn't turn white for no reason.

Ever have any overheating issues?
No overheating issues yet but the driving isn't all that strenuous. No smoke out the exhaust and no coolant smell. She has about 110k miles on her. One of the reasons I'm getting into the engine though is that coolant is everywhere on the front of the engine and leaks down on the floor. Seems to be originating from the upper end of the engine but hard to see till I get all the assemblies out for a closer inspect. The coolant is a the green stuff but I would guess that it can turn white with enough chemicals. I haven't been inside a 3.9 yet, are the head gaskets a bitch?

Karl
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  #4  
Old March 12th, 2012, 08:11 PM
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Joe Still
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Afraid they are a pretty good task. Having them done roughly $2k + seems average. Do in pairs.

Had mine done with valve job at 95 k miles. Also hard to get done well. Two different series of 3.9 have unique quirks. Steel gaskets vs composite and others. Love the people on the forum but opinions vary on every subject.

Good news if you are seeing coolant in the front. Might get lucky with intake manifold gasket. Keep that radiator clean Inside and be vigilant about water temp and I think the h gaskets can last. I had a 95 disco with 150 k and still sound.

I'm building a "new" 3.9 if you want to see what's inside. Happy Rovering ! Js
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  #5  
Old March 12th, 2012, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swede7000 View Post
Dropped the oil pan to replace the non existent gasket (just clear bathroom caulk!!!!).
Don't put a gasket back on unless you like leaks. Clean off the clear silicone, buy a can of "Right Stuff" from your favorite corner parts shop and use that instead.
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  #6  
Old March 12th, 2012, 09:25 PM
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You can use the thin sealant material on both sides of the gasket if you wanted to as well. This also eliminates the danger of having a bunch of rightstuff down in the pan.
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  #7  
Old March 12th, 2012, 10:11 PM
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If you ever want to get that pan off again don't go overboard.
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  #8  
Old March 13th, 2012, 12:56 AM
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Thanks for the replies!! Ordered a gasket set today and began BP blasting for dissassembly. A super awesome find was silicone chunk from the oil pan "gasket" packed into the oil pickup!! Gonna break her down and fix everything I come across. I seem to have good luck with blue RTV on my Ram truck. Would you use that for the pan?

------ Follow up post added March 12th, 2012 10:58 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by red&yellowrovers View Post
Afraid they are a pretty good task. Having them done roughly $2k + seems average. Do in pairs.

Had mine done with valve job at 95 k miles. Also hard to get done well. Two different series of 3.9 have unique quirks. Steel gaskets vs composite and others. Love the people on the forum but opinions vary on every subject.

Good news if you are seeing coolant in the front. Might get lucky with intake manifold gasket. Keep that radiator clean Inside and be vigilant about water temp and I think the h gaskets can last. I had a 95 disco with 150 k and still sound.

I'm building a "new" 3.9 if you want to see what's inside. Happy Rovering ! Js
How do you know which 3.9 series you have?? Any links / source of the quirks for each? Thanks!
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  #9  
Old March 13th, 2012, 03:41 AM
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ed angel
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I have seen the front timming cover leak and cause the streaking you are seeing, normally you can tell if your motor has had updated head gaskets done buy looking at the heads and seeing if the lower row of bolts are missing. Head gaskets arent hard but getting the bolts torqued can be a challenge, they get torqued then turned to a specific deg. they are stretch bolts so this is cruicial to a good long lasting job.
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  #10  
Old March 13th, 2012, 03:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ipgregory View Post
Don't put a gasket back on unless you like leaks. Clean off the clear silicone, buy a can of "Right Stuff" from your favorite corner parts shop and use that instead.

Amen on the "right stuff" works like a charm.

------ Follow up post added March 13th, 2012 03:43 AM ------

Ed,
I think you can also get the non-stretch bolt kind and go with the steel head gaskets if I am not correct.
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  #11  
Old March 13th, 2012, 10:28 AM
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I ordered a Pro Line gasket kit and bolt set from rovers north per their recommendation. I'll figure out what method of torque I will be dealing with when I have all the parts. I've seen a similar torque practice used in the assembly of steel buildings. I'm looking forward to this. Should be entertaining!

Do you guys check the head and block for level when you have it apart? I was thinking it would be easy with a magnetic base and a dial gauge but then realized its all aluminum?? Any tips?

------ Follow up post added March 13th, 2012 08:29 AM ------

I'll get some right stuff as well. Thanks for the tip!
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  #12  
Old March 13th, 2012, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDeWan View Post
Amen on the "right stuff" works like a charm.

------ Follow up post added March 13th, 2012 03:43 AM ------

Ed,
I think you can also get the non-stretch bolt kind and go with the steel head gaskets if I am not correct.
Im pretty sure the composite type is the better choice, lowers your compression a bit but a better seal than the steel.

But I believe you are right about the torque on the steelies, I just have never put the steels back on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swede7000 View Post
I ordered a Pro Line gasket kit and bolt set from rovers north per their recommendation. I'll figure out what method of torque I will be dealing with when I have all the parts. I've seen a similar torque practice used in the assembly of steel buildings. I'm looking forward to this. Should be entertaining!

Do you guys check the head and block for level when you have it apart? I was thinking it would be easy with a magnetic base and a dial gauge but then realized its all aluminum?? Any tips?

------ Follow up post added March 13th, 2012 08:29 AM ------

I'll get some right stuff as well. Thanks for the tip!

To check the head surface you need a bar to lay over the head and then measure with feeler gauges across the surface for warpage. If you don't have the tools to check it yourself I would run them to a machine shop and have them checked out. You don't want to put a head that may have a sealing problem back on. And if you do use the steel head gaskets this would even be more of an issue.
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  #13  
Old March 13th, 2012, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aka rover View Post
Im pretty sure the composite type is the better choice, lowers your compression a bit but a better seal than the steel.

But I believe you are right about the torque on the steelies, I just have never put the steels back on.




To check the head surface you need a bar to lay over the head and then measure with feeler gauges across the surface for warpage. If you don't have the tools to check it yourself I would run them to a machine shop and have them checked out. You don't want to put a head that may have a sealing problem back on. And if you do use the steel head gaskets this would even be more of an issue.
Thanks!!
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  #14  
Old March 15th, 2012, 12:46 PM
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The diffence in the 3.9's is whether you have the letter B (I think its B) in the block number. Anything without a B gets steel gaskets and 14 torque-to-yield head bolts($$$$). Blocks with a B get composite gaskets and 10 steel head bolts.

The best way to tell is count the head bolts; seriously some have 2 rows of 5 (10 = B) and some have 2 rows of 5 AND a row of 4 down low (5+5+4=engines with no B). I think the B is the later version in 95 on- not sure though. I think they upgraded to composite gaskets but used the old steel gasket version supply up and changed mid model run.

I promise such a thing exists, I have both..

Now you will hear about people using composite versus steel gaskets and std bolts or ARB studs and leaving out the lower row of bolts. I put mine back exactly as the books says. Gaskets type and bolt type/count. Some don't and they don't seem to report a problem. This way if it blows up I get to blame LR and not me. (IF it blows up it was probably me anyway but I'll never admit it).

If we were all as dedicated to a clean cooling system as a clean colon system the head gaskets wouldn't be overstressed by over heating. IMO.

All that said I hope its a front cover as an earlier post suggested. js
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  #15  
Old March 15th, 2012, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swede7000 View Post
The drained oil looks good with no signs of discoloration. I just would like to know if what you folks see in the pic looks normal or is this a sign of something else?
In my experience, coolant in oil makes the oil a creamy brown color.

What you show in the picture looks to me like something dripped onto the empty oil pan from above.

It seems unlikely to me that there would be such a stark difference between whatever the white stuff is and the surrounding oil, especially if the oil pan were full of oil.

The first step would be to figure out what the white stuff is. Coolant is not that color, nor is coolant mixed with oil.
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  #16  
Old March 15th, 2012, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red&yellowrovers View Post
The diffence in the 3.9's is whether you have the letter B (I think its B) in the block number. Anything without a B gets steel gaskets and 14 torque-to-yield head bolts($$$$). Blocks with a B get composite gaskets and 10 steel head bolts.

The best way to tell is count the head bolts; seriously some have 2 rows of 5 (10 = B) and some have 2 rows of 5 AND a row of 4 down low (5+5+4=engines with no B). I think the B is the later version in 95 on- not sure though. I think they upgraded to composite gaskets but used the old steel gasket version supply up and changed mid model run.

I promise such a thing exists, I have both..

Now you will hear about people using composite versus steel gaskets and std bolts or ARB studs and leaving out the lower row of bolts. I put mine back exactly as the books says. Gaskets type and bolt type/count. Some don't and they don't seem to report a problem. This way if it blows up I get to blame LR and not me. (IF it blows up it was probably me anyway but I'll never admit it).

If we were all as dedicated to a clean cooling system as a clean colon system the head gaskets wouldn't be overstressed by over heating. IMO.

All that said I hope its a front cover as an earlier post suggested. js
Where roughly on the engine is the number marked? I have not removed the valve covers yet as I'm waiting on a updated workshop manual.

Thanks

------ Follow up post added March 15th, 2012 11:50 AM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
In my experience, coolant in oil makes the oil a creamy brown color.

What you show in the picture looks to me like something dripped onto the empty oil pan from above.

It seems unlikely to me that there would be such a stark difference between whatever the white stuff is and the surrounding oil, especially if the oil pan were full of oil.

The first step would be to figure out what the white stuff is. Coolant is not that color, nor is coolant mixed with oil.
That is somewhat my thought as well... but the amount of the white stuff is a little unnerving. Since I'm going to dismantle and replace / upgrade as much as I am I figure may as well do the heads anyway and see what condition they are in. This D has 110k of somewhat neglected miles on her and from what I have read the head gaskets are due about now.
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  #17  
Old March 15th, 2012, 08:15 PM
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Drivers side near the center on stamping boss of block. Hard to see without lots of light

Combing several posts could the white stuff be excessive gasket sealant squeezed into the pan during last Assm and then discolored white thru oil contact?
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  #18  
Old March 15th, 2012, 08:30 PM
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Mine need to be replaced at 83k as does the radiator, I've neglected the cooling system.
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  #19  
Old March 15th, 2012, 10:00 PM
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My thoughts was remains of a additive or stop leak from the front cover leaking between timming cover and block.

I agree about the color of mixed oil and water not being white, I just didnt make my self clear on why I thought the white stuff looked like a front cover leak.

I would think if that was sealant from repair then you will find some in the screen on the pickup tube.

At this stage in the game you will have it torn down to the point it should be easy to determine at least why its in there.
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  #20  
Old March 16th, 2012, 01:34 PM
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aka, & Red & Yellow... Thanks for all your insight and info!!

I'm hoping that once tear down begins that I'll find clear signs of what is wrong! It very well could be additives that have leaked down and "set" since the white stuff is a little thicker gunky rather than oily. The first time I got under the engine it was obvious that some previous owner had dunked the front end rather deep into some red mud as it was caked thick all over the bottom of the engine and up to the headers. Probably the radiator fins would have been clogged at the time and a serious overheat took place is a random guess of mine ( I have lots of them!! ). So adding additives fixes the problem until the new owner gets it.
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