D110 with Discovery Powertrain Possible? - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old March 13th, 2012, 07:49 PM
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D110 with Discovery Powertrain Possible?

Hello all,

My first post here. I have been through about 10 LRs over the years and now have two 110s (long story).

D-90. com was recommended by a fellow LR obsessed fellow to answer this: How involved would it be to pull the engine transmission and transfer case from a discovery and install it in a Defender 110. will it fit? I'm ok with moving a bracket/mount or two and sling the ECUs somewhere. My main concern is will it fit within the frame rails? Are there any huge modifications that would make this not doable.

Stats:
1985 D110 w/ LT85 4 Speed 3.5 carbureted V8

Any benefits to sourcing Disco I donor Vs Disco II? Is the 4.6 with 5 Speed auto really a time bomb compared to the 4.0?

Thanks,
Oscar
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  #2  
Old March 13th, 2012, 08:12 PM
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Ian Gregory
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Quick answer is yes it will fit.

Slightly longer answer is use a 94 or 95 for the Donor D1. 96 and on are GEMS trucks and a lot more involved.

Off the top of my head and trying to keep it simple and hit the high points…

Your biggest headache is going to be wiring. You will need the complete engine and ECU harnesses from the D1. Then you have to adapt the D110 harness to the D1. You will either need to go with an electronic speedo (VDO) or use an RRC/NAS 90 mechanical/electrical set up to drive your old mechanical one.

You need the EVAP canisters and stuff from the disco, including the filler neck set up. You will need to modify the filler neck slightly to fit it as its slightly longer and run a line to the front. If your fuel tank doesn’t have vent ports then you need one off an RRC with EFi. Fuel pump also needs to be from an RRC EFi. You’ll need to modify your fuel lines at the back as the EFi pump is on the opposite side to the Carb one.

If you use a Stick D1 then you will have to get a different T-Case Shifter set up as the Disco is different. If you go Auto then you will have to source or fab a way to mount the shifter assembly. Ashcroft in the UK does a drop in Auto shifter set up that is very similar to the 97 NAS D90 set up. It’s not cheap but it looks good.

You will need to either source a set of R380 tunnel stuff or modify yours. Not a big deal. R380 is the same for both the D1 stick and Auto set ups.

You need the Y pipe from the D1 and then a stock NAS 110 back exhaust will work.

Everything mechanical is going to drop into stock locations so the T-Case and Engine will use the stock mounts.

If you go with the auto then you need to fab up a trans cooler. Stock 97 parts are available or you can fab one up using the disco one and getting the pipes modified.

Easiest thing to do is to buy a donor D1 so you have all the little bits and pieces.

HTH

Ian

Edit - Pic is of a 95 D1 Engine and Auto Trans going into an 83 110.

Edit II - There are certainly 20 other ways of doing this as well. Since you are making what is pretty much the same as a 93 NAS 110. Problem with the NAS is many parts are NLA (like harnesses, etc.) so you have to get creative and look around for other parts from other trucks that will work. That's why the electrical is your biggest headache. Your budget will also dictate how you go about it. New parts are available in most cases (from th UK mostly) if you know what you need but it can add up quick.
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  #3  
Old March 13th, 2012, 10:31 PM
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Charles Galpin
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Oscar, welcome to the forums.

Just wanted to add that you can go the cheap route on the shifter if needed. I have a D90 with an auto conversion and it simply has a speed shifter in the same place the stock gear shift leaver is. It looks fine.
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  #4  
Old March 13th, 2012, 10:40 PM
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J. Michael McCaig
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I installed a 4.6 with a 5 speed Defender manual transmission and a LT230 transfercase from a Disco in my '85 110 and I am very happy with the results. Its like an entirely different vehicle from the old 3.5 and 4spd. I kept it carbureted (edelbrock) so as to keep things simple and be able to use the same fuel system, exhaust and wiring loom. If you have a LT85 it should be a 5spd. and will already be coupled with an LT230 transfercase. The LT95 was a 4spd and had an integral transfercase and a LT 230 won't work unless you change the whole transmission assembly. The frame will accept the one bracket you wiill need to change if you have the 4spd. However you decide to do it, it will be well worth the effort.
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  #5  
Old March 13th, 2012, 10:54 PM
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Jason Zolezzi
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take a look at rebornco.com. They put a disco drivetrain in a 110 and used the entire floor, seats and transmission tunnel and shifter assembly. I think they used the dash too.
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  #6  
Old March 14th, 2012, 07:14 PM
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Ian, Thanks for the post. I swear I posted a thank you and a few more questions last night but I guess I slipped up somewhere.

Cgalpin, I hadn't planned on maintaining a stock appearance so that would work out pretty well, might even be able to offset it closer to the driver side and pull off the "short stick" location pretty easy if needed.

Jayz, that Disco interior in the Defender looks awesome. I wish I had the talent and resources to pull that off!

LRover, I was mistaken, I certainly have an LT 95 four speed in my 85 with the super winch second stick OD which is annoying.

Im sold on the 4.6 block and carb setup, that seems like a much simpler and elegant solution to modernize performance. The 3.5 doesn't really care to tow my trailer and I'm sure it won't want to go back and forth across the US reliably.

I have a disco R380 back in bama. I considered getting a new selecter shaft assembly and fork but I'm ok with the short shifter location. Unless there is a place to source that shaft in the US?

As far as the 4.6, will the front cover of my old 3.5 bolt right on? any issues with the distributer or belts? Any recommendations for a 4.6 short block or would you just get a used engine from eBay and go from there?

Is it possible to run an auto tranny and carbs? or is that just asking for electrical complications?

Thanks everyone
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  #7  
Old March 14th, 2012, 07:28 PM
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Ian Gregory
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No your 85 110 3.5 front cover won't work with the 4.6 crank. 4.6 has the oil pump in the front cover. The 3.5 is external and the nose of the crank is different. You will need the timing cover off a serp belt dizzy truck like the 94/95 NAS D1s. Then you can put a dizzy and carb on the 4.6.

ZF-4HP22 Auto (RRC, D1, 97 NAS D90) is a non-electronic box. You won't need anything to run it but you might run into stalling issues without the EFi system to manage the idle when you come off the throttle.

More importantly the 22 is not rated to handle the torque of the 4.6. 4.6 trucks have the stronger ZF-4HP24 box which IS electronic in LRs. You can get around this in a couple of ways. Ashcroft does a conversion to put 24 internals in a 22 case to beef it up. Or you can use something like a Compushift to control the box.

Or you could just run the 22 and replace them when you melt them. They’re cheap and plentiful…. J


Edit - You'll need to work something out with the Cam as well on the 4.6. No dizzy drive on the stock 4.6 cam.
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  #8  
Old March 14th, 2012, 07:54 PM
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This looks like a good start:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Land-Rover-D...ht_2428wt_1219

Anyone have a part number for that timing cover?
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  #9  
Old March 14th, 2012, 08:12 PM
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I've done 3.9 v-belt to Serp conversions, put 3.9 EFi systems on top of 3.5s and rebuilt 3.5s, 3.9s and 4.0s. I haven't personally put a carb and dizzy on a 4.6 though so I don't know all the little ins and out problems you may run into. 4.0 and 4.6 are very similar so I know enough to warn you about the big stuff like the crank and the cam but not all the little stuff you may run into.

Just hypothetically though, if I was doing this I would source a good early 4.0 long block, the rotating internals, rods and pistons from a 4.6 and the front end and stuff off a 3.9 serp. Flywheel and stuff is going to depend on the tranny you go with. Then I would build the new engine from the 4.0 LB, the 4.6 internals and the rest from the 3.9. Carb and manifold from somewhere else of course.

LRover has done it so he should be able to tell you what you need.
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  #10  
Old March 14th, 2012, 08:30 PM
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If you use an earlier EFI that doesn't need input from the ABS and alarm system would that work better. I guess you might have to stick to the V belt? Sorry I know diesels better than the gas stuff.
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  #11  
Old March 14th, 2012, 08:36 PM
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That’s why I told him to steer clear of the 96 and on GEMS and later Bosch stuff which is when all that stuff came into play. Pre 96 14CUX stuff or earlier doesn’t have any of that.

Sounds like he's interested in cutting all the electrickery crap out and keeping it simple with a carb though.
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  #12  
Old March 14th, 2012, 09:56 PM
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It would be nice to keep it simple. I really enjoyed getting in my discovery and cruising up to NY from miami without a worry in the world (well I rolled into NYC gangster leaning because a load leveling sensor stuck but thats beside the point).

There are a couple of things I would like from my powertrain:
- start every time when cranked
- reduced gear whine
- over drive to make the engine rpm less chaotic
- enough torque to tow about 3500 lbs without creeping along at 50 mph on the highway
- run air-conditioning
- get better than 13 MPG

I would like my D110 to:
- have vents that actually do something
- have a radio that works
- add enough sound deadening to be able to hear radio
- plug up all the gaps and boots to keep hot engine heat off my feet and legs

I like the idea that I can keep a motorcycle INSIDE my truck and still seat four (measured but yet to be proven). without motorcycle inside i would like to be able to set up a sleeping rack or two for road trips to Nova Scotia or Colorado when its not too cold. I really want this to be the last LR I ever buy.
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  #13  
Old March 14th, 2012, 11:53 PM
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Yes, you can use the front cover from your 3.5...I did. You will need to change the cam for one with a distributor drive gear is all. Check the guys at aluminumv8.com for the cam etc. You will need to source or make a spacer for the crankshaft pully as the crankshaft nose is longer than the 3.5. I just ground off the teeth of an old timing chain gear. The 4.6 will easily pull your trailer with power to spare. Here is a photo of my 4.6 with the 3.5 timing cover and lower pulley with extra sheaves to run a hydraulic pump and a photo of it installed in my 110.
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  #14  
Old March 15th, 2012, 01:35 AM
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Pretty simple fix then on the crank. Cool. Not had to do one going this way so never had to look at it, I just know the crank noses are different. Going the other way (V-Belt to Serp) you can't do it as the woodruff key is not long enough for both the oil pump gear and the front pulley and the nose is too short.
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Old March 15th, 2012, 12:09 PM
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Going to go look at a 3.9 Distributer engine out near Ft Lauderdale they are asking 750 for a long block with manifolds, ill see if they could knock the price down without the intake manifold.

for 4.6 cranks does this look about right:

http://www.jewellamberoil.com/sales/...roducts_id=277

does the R380 have a significantly different mount than the LT 95? do I locate an R380 mount or is this a weld in affair?
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  #16  
Old March 15th, 2012, 02:39 PM
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If you run an auto or an R380, you will need new driveshafts and a transmission crossmember (not the one off a disco/RRC is different than the one off a D90/110).
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  #17  
Old March 15th, 2012, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
If you run an auto or an R380, you will need new driveshafts and a transmission crossmember (not the one off a disco/RRC is different than the one off a D90/110).
You sure Ron? The ZF Auto RRC, D1 NAS (Stick and Auto) and D90 NAS Auto Crossmembers I have seen are all the same (round style). Haven't seen a gas LT77 or R380 110 in a long while and can't remember if that is different. Can't see why it would be though.

Gas Torqflite RRC Auto was different, it was the old box style.

He will need a t-case and brackets to go with the R380 if he goes that way (or if he goes ZF auto) and as far as I know the D1 front driveshaft will work. Rear will need to be off a 110 though.
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  #18  
Old March 15th, 2012, 03:26 PM
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They look the same as they are both round style, but they are different (at least they are different sitting side by side). I can't swear 100% to it as I don't have the catalogs to check PNs, but RN has a crossmember and it says it only fits D90/110.
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  #19  
Old March 15th, 2012, 03:27 PM
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I put the engine and transmission from a 94 rr lwb into my 110 but used the original lt230. A disco 1 front prop shaft and the lwb rear shaft worked perfect. I used the cross member from the lwb to but had to add some metal and drill new lower holes. The 110 frame is taller.
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  #20  
Old March 15th, 2012, 03:30 PM
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Ok that makes sense. The 90 frame is the same as the others but the 110 is deeper in the mid rails so the plate at the ends would need to be longer.

Sorry Ron, you're right about the 110 being different.
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