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  #61  
Old October 10th, 2016, 03:54 PM
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Well, certainly do not want to drag that point out as we are in the same boat, but things do change over time.


That being said, thank you for reminding me about my earlier question...


Is it an ISV(F?) 2.8L four cylinder that would be the engine in the repower kit we are talking about or is it the ISV 5L V8 ? (I cannot find the ISV 2.8, but I can find the ISF 2.8.)


I have not seen the Jeep that has been discussed and videos and a lot of other sites are blocked where I am...


Please can someone clarify ?


Thanks !
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  #62  
Old October 10th, 2016, 05:34 PM
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Isf 2.8.
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  #63  
Old October 10th, 2016, 05:39 PM
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http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...tml#post773418
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  #64  
Old October 10th, 2016, 06:55 PM
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DIESEL all the way....
I work with isb /isl/isx all day great power and reliable the new rear geartrain engines are much quieter ..common rail is the way to go but there way too heavy in my opinion so now theres the 2.8 /3.8 isf i think these will be great engines for defender use now we just have to find someone willing to take on that project....who could it be ? Click image for larger version

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  #65  
Old October 11th, 2016, 08:02 AM
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Many thanks John and Doug for the clarification and direction. This is really a very exciting development and if it is indeed near that pricing then one would think it seems possibly attainable for a lot of folks. Perhaps Nick will add an installation kit to go along with his awesome LS one
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  #66  
Old October 11th, 2016, 08:33 AM
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Probably not unrealistic to this that this is a $10k conversion turnkey installed ready to drive etc
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  #67  
Old October 11th, 2016, 09:12 AM
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Its hard to believe a cummins crate engine is gonna come in around 7k i would think more close to 9k then you'll have adapter to transmission which is at least 1k then to tbox another 1k on to the oem side wiring...exhaust,inter-cooler and turbo piping, etc things add up quick ..but we'll see .

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  #68  
Old October 11th, 2016, 09:22 AM
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The engine is already available elsewhere in the world and has been for quite some time. Steve rattled off the different brands using this engine in pick up trucks around the world including S.America and Australia. It is used as a replacement engine in skid steers etc.The engine can be bought new in a crate for about $4500 on Alibaba but you will pay shipping and get no warranty. They are looking to undercut the GM LS crate engine. You will be able to buy these from Summit Racing or a Cummins dealer.
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  #69  
Old October 11th, 2016, 09:35 AM
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They had one at Expo this past weekend. A 2000 Jeep TJ with the ISF 2.8 in it, so they were bolting up to a NV3550 (which is actually a pretty darn good transmission, I just wish the jeep 6 speed was worth a darn, they are dying left and right behind the jeep 3.8s).

Redline on this engine for on-road is somewhere in the 4k RPM range. He said that with the stock drivetrain (hinted that the gears might be 3.73 in the diffs, and stock tires, so I believe it was pulling some high RPMs) it wasn't too bad. But then again, his version of "bad" could be different from mine. The new common rail engines ARE quieter than the old mechanically injected engines...by A LOT. So that helps. I did not hear him run it, but I should have asked him.

It is an electronic engine. And as everyone recoils in disgust, it actually makes it A LOT better. As for the extras, they are making full wiring harnesses and including everything that is needed to fit the engine. So despite it being a new engine, it would plug directly into the jeep, no problem. There a few oil pan options as well, so that helps. It is fly by wire, but they will be supplying a foot pedal. I looked at it, looks like a bolt in, and probably the same as the ford off-the-shelf fly by wire pedal...that ford uses...in everything.

It is a crossflow engine, but they are running an intercooler, so that doesn't really matter.

Numbers were impressive. Something like ~260 ft.lbs and like, 160hp. Plenty for a lightweight application such as jeeps and our rovers.

Overall, this engine with the NV3500/3550 transmission (I know it isn't the loved 4500, but it'll be fine, cheaper, and lighter), and an Orion transfer case would be pretty much the awesome in a rover.

On MPG, with the TJ, NV3550, stock transfer case (so, 1:1 high range), 3.73 gears, stock tires (which I think are basically 29" or 30" tall tires), the worst he got was 24, hauling @$$ over the rockies. Best he got was 34 mpg. But average, he got like, 30.

So we won't hear about this kit directly from Cummins (that isn't their style). But they are working with re-packagers. That is their style (I get it). So some other company will sell the engine with the needed harnesses, ECMs, pedals, piping, etc.

Price wise, he said go only the chevy website and see what a LS sells for. And this would be less. Well, an LS is somewhere between $7k and $14k. So I suspect the price for a high volume conversion kit (aka, jeep) will be in the $10~12k neighborhood.

Currently the engine only has Euro 3 and Euro 4 rating. So I can only assume they are going to get whatever equivalent for US. So the regulations (excluding Cali) is that you can replace with current tier...or newer. So you can put a 2015 engine into a 2000 (or whatever). You just can't put an older engine into a newer truck (I saw a guy put a 93 DT466 into a 2003 Ford, that is bad...).

As for the 2.8, there is an engine population growing out there as they do have a Tier 4 Final off-highway version (aka, construction equipment). So while the computer programming is different, for the most part, the hardware is the same. So Cummins shops all over the US can receive this engine into their bays and know WTF they are dealing with. That is a benefit. And also Cummins is used to seeing engines in all kinda crap. So when it shows up in something new, they are used to it.

Same story with the 3.8. For on road, the HP will be about the same, but will have more torque. It will be a physically bigger engine, but could be worth it for those carrying a bunch of crap and/or towing. The 3.8 will be smaller than the 4BT/4.5 engines. I like the 2.8 because it is small, and has all the power one needs. Fitting this engine to an old 4 cyl TJ makes a ton of sense. To a 6 cyl...maybe. This engine has ~40 more ft.lbs of torque, but less HP. That said, it blows a TDI 300 out of the water and gives a rover 4.0 a run for its money. It is a bit wide but if you are pulling a V8, then there is plenty of room.
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  #70  
Old October 11th, 2016, 09:35 AM
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Doug i'm not arguing just pointing out that there a lot more involved than just throwing a crate engine in...
and yes the 2.8 isf are going for about 4500 and high shipping cost
there's very limited info on these engines even on the cummins quickserve site
i'm all for this and actually my 3.8 isf will be at the shop by next week
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  #71  
Old October 11th, 2016, 09:46 AM
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fyi.... on the jeep
Jeep Wrangler Diesel Conversions - Bruiser Conversions
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  #72  
Old October 11th, 2016, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by rovertek View Post
Doug i'm not arguing just pointing out that there a lot more involved than just throwing a crate engine in...
As are all engine conversions. "Most" people around here that you see doing engine conversion take months to years....and never really honestly tell how much money and time were spent. This one does look pretty straightforward, though. It should fit in the engine bay easily. The adapters already exist to hook up to the drivetrain. Power, torque and economy should fit well with a Defender. Having support from the engine manufacturer for a standalone ECU is a big thing as well.
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  #73  
Old October 11th, 2016, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
As are all engine conversions. "Most" people around here that you see doing engine conversion take months to years....and never really honestly tell how much money and time were spent. This one does look pretty straightforward, though. It should fit in the engine bay easily. The adapters already exist to hook up to the drivetrain. Power, torque and economy should fit well with a Defender. Having support from the engine manufacturer for a standalone ECU is a big thing as well.
Totally agree with you ! now the big question
nv4500 or 4l85e ?
i spoke to a bunch of adapter company's and since its a isf common rail they have not made anything for that engine but i'm assuming its a SAE# 3 bellhousing which i could adapt to
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  #74  
Old October 11th, 2016, 10:20 AM
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On the one youtube video the jeep they put this engine in ran completely submerged for 14 mins before the jeep was finally pulled out of the pond. Point is don't be afraid of the engine being ecu controlled.
The ecu is tiny btw.
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  #75  
Old October 11th, 2016, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rovertek View Post
Totally agree with you ! now the big question
nv4500 or 4l85e ?
i spoke to a bunch of adapter company's and since its a isf common rail they have not made anything for that engine but i'm assuming its a SAE# 3 bellhousing which i could adapt to
I would think the NV3550 would be the best choice, which is what the TJ conversions are using. It should be an easier fit than the 4500. The gearing range is a bit better than the R380 and it should be strong enough.
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  #76  
Old October 11th, 2016, 10:50 AM
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Nv3550 is rated for 300 ftlb
The 3.8 isf makes 443lbs at 1300 rpm stock tune . I'm alittle conceared about that and i'm sick of doing transmissions

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  #77  
Old October 11th, 2016, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by rovertek View Post
Nv3550 is rated for 300 ftlb
The 3.8 isf makes 443lbs at 1300 rpm stock tune . I'm alittle conceared about that and i'm sick of doing transmissions
I'm talking about the 2.8.
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  #78  
Old October 11th, 2016, 10:56 AM
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I'm working with a 3.8 isf Click image for larger version

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  #79  
Old October 11th, 2016, 11:05 AM
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Maybe a separate thread would be a good idea, as this would now be the third engine under discussion in this one thread. I'm sure an NV4500 would work fine. Have you looked at the original discussions and what the guys in the UK are doing with the 6BT conversions? They have quite a few trucks converted and companies making all of the adapter parts in decent quantities. I'm not sure if any of that would port over to the 3.8 or not but those guys would be the ones to ask. They are doing a lot of extensive builds.

The point we were getting at with the 2.8, is that with the NV3550, it will probably drop in a Defender with no space, clearance or weight issues.
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  #80  
Old October 11th, 2016, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
Maybe a separate thread would be a good idea, as this would now be the third engine under discussion in this one thread. I'm sure an NV4500 would work fine. Have you looked at the original discussions and what the guys in the UK are doing with the 6BT conversions? They have quite a few trucks converted and companies making all of the adapter parts in decent quantities. I'm not sure if any of that would port over to the 3.8 or not but those guys would be the ones to ask. They are doing a lot of extensive builds.

The point we were getting at with the 2.8, is that with the NV3550, it will probably drop in a Defender with no space, clearance or weight issues.
understandable

here's spec sheet on all isf engines 2.8/3.8

https://cumminsengines.com/uploads/docs/4971326.pdf
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