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  #41  
Old September 21st, 2016, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
What makes it 50 state legal? It is not used in any road vehicles in the USA, is it? Even if it was, you would need urea and particulate filters to be considered legal and you don't want to be dealing with that crap.
"...in years to come" is the operative term here.
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  #42  
Old September 21st, 2016, 11:49 PM
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Guys:

My contact at Cummins is Steve Sanders, the marketing director for the ISV program and he happened to be at our offices today and drove a 2000 Wrangler that he had dropped the 2.8 ISV into. Very nice looking motor and I took some photos which I will be happy to post. He said it was getting mid-thirties for FE even with final drive ratios that were not optimum (running too high.)

I mentioned this thread and he said he was happy for me to post his contact details, etc. which I will do tomorrow when I have a minute at the office. I'll also ask (if the group here supports) if he wants to join the forum so he can provide more details.

He did mention that the Wrangler with their stand-alone ECU and no aftertreatment was meeting (IIRC) 2000 emissions levels, so if I understand correctly, this would be compliant for a vehicle that is older. But I will be the first to say that I'm not well versed on older diesel emissions standards.

More to come but happy to see there is interest.

Cheers,

CARL
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  #43  
Old September 22nd, 2016, 01:36 AM
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I support him joining even though I have no current plans.
But I like learning and I like diesels.
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  #44  
Old September 22nd, 2016, 06:19 AM
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Tell him to be careful if he does join, because before he knows it he will have a shitbox Defender leaking oil in the driveway and a garage full of parts pissing the wife off.
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  #45  
Old September 22nd, 2016, 06:56 AM
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Joining the forum isn't going to sell engines. Whats needed is someone to step up and manufacture the adapter(s) needed to make these engines work in Defenders.
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  #46  
Old September 22nd, 2016, 10:05 AM
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We are working on the retrofit for lighting for the Denver Cummins factory... I really need to get a contact there... maybe someone that drinks beer and builds engines :-)
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  #47  
Old September 22nd, 2016, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
Joining the forum isn't going to sell engines. Whats needed is someone to step up and manufacture the adapter(s) needed to make these engines work in Defenders.
the way the jeep guys did it was interesting bolting a jeep flywheel to the cummins one. That way he kept the ring gear but could use the standard 4.0 jeep clutch. I intend to check their booth out @ Expo and see if this is a rabbit hole worth going down. Their crate marine engines are not cheap.
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  #48  
Old September 22nd, 2016, 01:57 PM
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Guys:

I've got an email in to Steve to see if he wants to join of if he would rather have me post an explanation/description of his program and then let those with interest follow-up with him directly. I suppose it depends on how much time he might have to spend on the forum. Either way, I will keep you know.

As for the question of the adapter, that is clearly an issue and hopefully one he can address. He has mentioned to me that their engine conforms to one of the SAE standards for bolt patterns and because of this was an easy mate to the ZF 8HP and Nissan's Aisin 6MT but I can't say what that means as far as LT77's and R380's goes.
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  #49  
Old September 22nd, 2016, 02:23 PM
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I really think you'd want to move as far away from an R380 as possible. With Nicks 6L90 adapter basically turning the LT230 into a standard round pattern tcase, you could use almost anything. NV3550 comes to mind. (4500 way overkill for ~400 torque max)
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  #50  
Old September 23rd, 2016, 05:55 PM
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So where are people getting these engines? Alibaba.com??
Relay from Cummins
Good morning John,
The ISF2.8 engine isn't available right now here in the North American Market. We are advising that you go to https://cumminsengines.com/repower-survey. This information goes to our marketing department. You may also want to look for announcements from SEMA some time in November.
Thank you for contacting Cummins.
Mark
Customer Care Representative
If we have misunderstood the information in your communication or you have additional questions please feel free to respond to our support staff by e-mailing powermaster@cummins.com or call Monday through Friday, 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. ET at 1-800-DIESELS (1-800-343-7357). If you are located outside of North America, you can reach us at 812-377-3000.
For authorized service center locations please visit:
http://locator.cummins.com

relay from Alibaba.com.
Dear Mr
Thanks for your inquiry.

We are top supplier of engine assembly and parts with 8 years experience.

there are many model for ISF2.8 diesel engine, which one do you need?

usually the price in Market for this engine is $6500

there are 2 set stock (new and original, but produce in before years)in our warehouse , the price is $4999

with sarter , alternator, air compressor,turbocharger
without air filter assembly, without engine mounted without steering pump without

however, need your more deital
such as full engine model such as ISF2.8S3`42P...
or you tell me where you need the engine used?(bus? truck)
or how many power do you need? (142hp or 168hp..)
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  #51  
Old September 25th, 2016, 10:06 PM
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Update from Cummins

Guys:

Here is the info Steve asked me to pass along to the forum for the latest on the ISV crate motor program:

· The engine is a global engine we use all over the world in various applications ranging from pickups/SUV’s and cab over trucks, to newer construction equipment. Point being, parts will be plentiful wherever you take your rig through the normal Cummins channels. Currently, we build it in our Beijing plant with engineering here in Columbus, the UK and Beijing. It is built to withstand very harsh environments where engine maintenance and fuel quality are not high on the priority list.

· The engine is electronic and speaks J1939 so there is a nice public broadcast to read any vitals etc. The ECM also has wiring for normal dummy/warning lights for those wanting to keep factory dash look without additional gauges. We utilized the factory sending units for the Jeep to keep the dash gauges happy and run our tach output into their cam sensor pick-up so the Jeep computer thinks it’s still a 4.0 and all gauges work.

· The final torque/power curves are yet to be released but the torque curve is truly flat in the regular operating range and makes for a very enjoyable and confident ride

· The fuel economy I’ve been tracking in our Jeep has been outstanding and I can honestly say that in most cases I’ve 2-3x better than the stock version of this vehicle we have

· For size/packaging reference, the engine fits in the TJ Jeep platform in place of 4.0L with no firewall modifications and room to spare in front, factory transmission (NV3550) in factory location, no lift, and no sagging in the front (our emissions demo Jeep is tires with 177k original miles before we did the swap and everything is holding up great)

· The data sheet lists the engine at 504lbs – Our stock TJ with hard top, full doors and the Cummins weighs in at 3700lbs on the scales. Stock curb weight range for a TJ was 3,092-3,832 lbs.

· Our kit contents will be announced later this fall publically but should really help in breaking down barriers for those thinking about an engine swap in general regardless of diesel or gas

· We have been engaged with other notable SEMA companies for aftermarket components (adapters, vehicle specific harnesses, exhaust) to ensure that they are ready for our launch

· Lift pump is integrated into high pressure pump, waste gate turbo, potential for small passive on-engine flow-through diesel oxidation catalyst (transparent to user) for later model gas-to-diesel conversions but no DPF or SCR required for the level of certification we are targeting

· The “million dollar” question of price point will be announced later on, but will be very aggressive and appealing to anyone considering a swap outside of a junkyard pull

· Engine runs around 180*F

· Charge air cooler required for optimum performance (sizing guidance will be provided)

· Stock gas radiators are in most cases more than sufficient but we will give guidance on recommended cooling package sizes

· This engine is high pressure common rail so it is nice and quiet with predictable performance cold and hot.

· As someone who has personally logged thousands of miles in various applications of this engine, I promise you that I’m going to be first in line to buy crate #1.


Come see the Jeep at Overland Expo East and some other repowers we’ll have on show at SEMA this fall and if ever in Columbus, Indiana (Cummins global HQ), please send a message to the Cummins Facebook account and ask that your info be given to me regarding “Cummins Repower” from the Defender Forum.

I would love for more of the Land Rover community to give us feedback on our survey page which also has a general public overview of what we’ve announced thus far: https://cumminsengines.com/repower-survey

Cheers,

-Steve Sanders
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  #52  
Old September 26th, 2016, 07:38 AM
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Thanks for the info Green Blood.

It sounds like this engine ticks off a lot of boxes we Rover guys would want: weight, power, flat torque, & parts availability. Curious what the price tag will be.
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  #53  
Old September 26th, 2016, 09:29 AM
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They'll never bring it in to the US just for a small number of LR owners. However if Nissan adopts the engine in the next gen Frontier, and Jeepers get the aftermarket moving (Cummins to NV3500), then maybe maybe it will become possible. Adapters for the NV3500 to LT230 already exist. Land Rover LT230 Transfer Case Adapter Plate to NV4500 NV3550 | eBay Just don't ask about driveshaft length etc or what details will need to be sweated out to make everything work.

That is all.
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  #54  
Old September 26th, 2016, 09:45 AM
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Survey completed. Thank you for sharing this, Carl


Please send Steve my thanks !


If I had it to do over again, at this time, I would be well torn between the LS kit from Nick and this diesel repower kit from Cummins, but this is surely twisting my arm more as I have always been a sucker for diesel power


PS - is this the ISV or ISF we are talking about ? Sorry, but the acronyms are confusing...
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  #55  
Old September 26th, 2016, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
They'll never bring it in to the US just for a small number of LR owners.
What they (Cummins) are saying is that they are going to start purposely marketing it as a re-power kit. In other words, they will sell complete crate engine kits with engine management systems and external sensors. Obviously the big market is Jeep owners. As I understand it, the engine is used in a lot of small industrial equipment in the US.
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  #56  
Old September 26th, 2016, 11:50 AM
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Thanks for the info, defiantly would like to hear any additional info that becomes available as I am currently contemplating an LS conversion, but this would definitely be preferred staying with a diesel..
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  #57  
Old September 26th, 2016, 12:01 PM
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A Cummins conversion could have worldwide interest. For me I'm constantly frustrated by the poor range of the V8.
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  #58  
Old September 27th, 2016, 02:04 PM
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Red90 is correct- While versions of the ISV are used worldwide (I've seen a Chinese Proton SUV powered by one at Cummins HQ) Steve is creating the crate motor program specifically for the US. Of course he is targeting the Jeep market (since they are large volume opportunity) he is looking at all sorts of segments where this type of conversion makes sense- the overlanding crowd in particular.

Steve knows this market well as he's turned a few wrenches and built his own Cummins re-powered Jeep before he was working for the company. I think it was one of the things that got him interested in working for them.

I'll hit him up to see if he knows when he is going to release pricing.
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  #59  
Old October 10th, 2016, 03:31 PM
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Just a bump to keep the conversation going
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  #60  
Old October 10th, 2016, 03:43 PM
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Yeah. I just wish this option had been available to explore when I did my conversion in the Disco.

Doing the Cummins certainly would have been more legal versus the International 2.8.
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