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  #1  
Old June 22nd, 2015, 11:20 PM
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Cummings conversion

Have a camel trophy defender 110 , restoring original .
To have as comute truck got a defender 90 1989 with j19 , it just died ( was weak ) so I have a good diesel mechanic , not very familiar with defender . Any one have information on what would be best option ( he has 4 Blt Cummings restored ) ready , keep original transmission or what best would be transplanted with new engine for daily driver and partial off-road .
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  #2  
Old June 22nd, 2015, 11:31 PM
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If you want to go non-Rover diesel Robert Davis is has a Mercedes Benz om617 conversion kit that several members are doing right now. I have seen his 110 and ridden in it and it is a very smooth motor.
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  #3  
Old June 22nd, 2015, 11:46 PM
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I'd go the Mercedes route. The Cummins is nice but way too big and heavy. Too much vibration and too loud.

Mercedes while not as powerful or torquey, fits better and isn't as heavy.
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  #4  
Old June 23rd, 2015, 12:06 AM
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I have these stats in my phone notes - I might be off a little.

2.5 NA - 68HP - 114 lb/ft
------ 550 lb (270kg)
200tdi - 111HP - 195 lb/ft
------ 500 lbs (205kg)
300tdi - 122HP - 210 lb/ft
TD5 - 136HP - 221 lb/ft
********************************************
OM617 - 125HP - 180 lb/ft
------ 550-600 lbs
OM606 - 174HP - 253 lb/ft
********************************************
4BD1T - 126HP -
------- 750 lbs
********************************************
Chevy LS 5.3
------- 450 lbs
********************************************
Rover 3.9 - 182HP - 232 lb/ft
------- 400 lbs
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  #5  
Old June 23rd, 2015, 12:10 AM
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I'll echo the sentiment that cummins motors are too loud and heavy for a rover. There are more refined options out there. For ease of installment you could go with a rover 200 or 300tdi from Rover Resource (http://www.roverresource.com/contact/). For something a little different there is the aforementioned Mercedes om617 conversion.
If you are considering converting to petrol, rover v8's are cheap and plentiful. But at that rate I would consider the Ls3 V8 swap discussed in many other threads on this board.
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  #6  
Old June 23rd, 2015, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by don View Post
I have these stats in my phone notes - I might be off a little. 2.5 NA - 68HP - 114 lb/ft ------ 550 lb (270kg) 200tdi - 111HP - 195 lb/ft ------ 500 lbs (205kg) 300tdi - 122HP - 210 lb/ft TD5 - 136HP - 221 lb/ft ******************************************** OM617 - 125HP - 180 lb/ft ------ 550-600 lbs OM606 - 174HP - 253 lb/ft ******************************************** 4BD1T - 126HP - ------- 750 lbs ******************************************** Chevy LS 5.3 ------- 450 lbs ******************************************** Rover 3.9 - 182HP - 232 lb/ft ------- 400 lbs
You're missing one.

International HS 2.8 TGV
135 hp. 277 lb/ft.

I have this. To some degree I wish I had put the MB in.
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  #7  
Old June 23rd, 2015, 06:28 AM
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I currently have an isuzu 3.1 liter turbo diesel mated to an r380 in my range rover and could not be happier with it! I find it much more driveable than the 300tdi I had prior to this
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  #8  
Old June 23rd, 2015, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by don View Post
I have these stats in my phone notes - I might be off a little.

2.5 NA - 68HP - 114 lb/ft
------ 550 lb (270kg)
200tdi - 111HP - 195 lb/ft
------ 500 lbs (205kg)
300tdi - 122HP - 210 lb/ft
TD5 - 136HP - 221 lb/ft
********************************************
OM617 - 125HP - 180 lb/ft
------ 550-600 lbs
OM606 - 174HP - 253 lb/ft
********************************************
4BD1T - 126HP -
------- 750 lbs
********************************************
Chevy LS 5.3
------- 450 lbs
********************************************
Rover 3.9 - 182HP - 232 lb/ft
------- 400 lbs
To add to what Don sent:
Isuzu 4JB1-T: 106 KW (144 HP) @ 3850 - 242 NM*** (178 ft/lb) @ 2300
We crank it up to around 180 HP with IP adjustment and a manual boost controller.
The 4JB1-T is a SUV engine if you locate the right one, used in the trooper and rodeo.
The 4BD1T is a big clunky delivery truck engine that I don't use, but has been installed in Defender style Land Rovers.

You can also buy a modified M-IP (7.5mm plungers and external ALDA linked to the throttle) for the OM617 that will provide about 180 - 220 . HP depending on fuel and boost adjustments.
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  #9  
Old June 23rd, 2015, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuisC View Post
You're missing one. International HS 2.8 TGV 135 hp. 277 lb/ft. I have this. To some degree I wish I had put the MB in.
Thanks - going to update my info with that.

That 277 lb/ft of torque is impressive!
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  #10  
Old June 23rd, 2015, 07:00 AM
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Conversion

I mentioned that option to him ( Mercedes ) , he is great mechanic and just has a lot of time with Cummings and feels that they are the most bullet proof . He does all the strange and large machinery around here ( go to guy to fix the odd stuff ) . But if he doesn't want to try the different engine is there anyone that is familiar with Cummings and what transmisdion to keep . I am familiar with 200 , I love it for what it is , but for daily driver , not convinced . I have one in my camel , and in my previous 109.
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  #11  
Old June 23rd, 2015, 07:37 AM
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Dan Rao has a 4 cylinder Cummins 4BT "bread truck engine" in his 109 trail truck.
Is reliable and does great off road, but the vibration is enough to make you go numb, so if you go this route, some hydraulic filled motor mounts will help cut down on the fillings coming loose in your teeth.
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #12  
Old June 23rd, 2015, 08:03 AM
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Yeah I wouldn't just limit myself to options my mechanic is comfortable with, especially if it's not the most ideal option. I want the MB.
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  #13  
Old June 23rd, 2015, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rijosho View Post
Yeah I wouldn't just limit myself to options my mechanic is comfortable with, especially if it's not the most ideal option. I want the MB.
Your mechanic may be comfortable with it, but you won't be and I think all that extra weight and vibration plus noise will cause a massive amount of buyers remorse.
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  #14  
Old June 23rd, 2015, 08:50 AM
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I used the NV4500 mated to the LT230 on the backside. In a Disco 1 or 2 or even a RR it feels good. In the 110 and 90 there just isnt enough padding to not go numb not matter what you insulate it with. Weekend warrior is fine but for a DD it's not you best option. I got 250hp/525fp safely out of a marine grade one a few years back…holy shit that thing was quick. The 4BT is an awsome motor for the right application. It's your $$$ so if you choose to go down that road there are people here to help in the process but do heed the warnings and don't be mad when no one wants to ride with you do to them liking their eyeballs intact. Good luck!
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  #15  
Old June 23rd, 2015, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roverchef View Post
I used the NV4500 mated to the LT230 on the backside. In a Disco 1 or 2 or even a RR it feels good. In the 110 and 90 there just isnt enough padding to not go numb not matter what you insulate it with. Weekend warrior is fine but for a DD it's not you best option. I got 250hp/525fp safely out of a marine grade one a few years back…holy shit that thing was quick. The 4BT is an awsome motor for the right application. It's your $$$ so if you choose to go down that road there are people here to help in the process but do heed the warnings and don't be mad when no one wants to ride with you do to them liking their eyeballs intact. Good luck!
250/525 is some serious power. I have heard the 4BT are very tunable. But like you guys have said at the expense of a lot of weight and being noisy/rumbly.

I haven't finished my OM617 yet but I have enjoyed working on it and doing the install. One very nice thing is Mercedes imported a ton of them into the states so most Euro auto parts places will have parts. Driveway start up the OM617 is WAY smoother than the 2.5NA but that isn't saying too much, haha.
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  #16  
Old June 23rd, 2015, 12:13 PM
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200tdi is basically a bolt in.
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  #17  
Old June 23rd, 2015, 12:30 PM
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The 4BT is very tuneable. I like it for what I use it for as a trail rig. For street use, I would have used different/better motor mounts and I would have geared the truck differently. I use an old SM420 truck transmission and a divorce mounted LT230. For street use I would want an overdrive 5 speed, and defender gearing in the diffs instead of the series gearing.

There is a facebook page of mostly UK folks that are putting the 6bt cummins in defenders. https://www.facebook.com/groups/Cumm..._comment_reply

Tons of power and torque, easily tuneable but also very nose heavy I would think. But that might be a good place to ask questions.
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  #18  
Old June 23rd, 2015, 06:14 PM
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I felt like Adam west in old cheesy batman shoe when the j19 went , massive smoke screen .

Will that Mercedes do ok with lt77 that is in there on highway ? What are your views on the overdriven that are out there . I'm sure the Cummings will dump the lt77 but how will it hd up to the Mercedes ?
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  #19  
Old June 24th, 2015, 04:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by don View Post
I have these stats in my phone notes - I might be off a little.

2.5 NA - 68HP - 114 lb/ft
------ 550 lb (270kg)
200tdi - 111HP - 195 lb/ft
------ 500 lbs (205kg)
300tdi - 122HP - 210 lb/ft
TD5 - 136HP - 221 lb/ft
********************************************
OM617 - 125HP - 180 lb/ft
------ 550-600 lbs
OM606 - 174HP - 253 lb/ft
********************************************
4BD1T - 126HP -
------- 750 lbs
********************************************
Chevy LS 5.3
------- 450 lbs
********************************************
Rover 3.9 - 182HP - 232 lb/ft
------- 400 lbs
Interesting how all those engines are so heavy. The M52 in the SA Defenders is 260 lbs (190 hp - 210 lb·ft). The M54b30 weighs just a little more at 278 lbs (228 hp 221 lb·ft). Source link.
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  #20  
Old June 24th, 2015, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip View Post
Interesting how all those engines are so heavy. The M52 in the SA Defenders is 260 lbs (190 hp - 210 lb·ft). The M54b30 weighs just a little more at 278 lbs (228 hp 221 lb·ft). Source link.
To add:
The 4JB1-T is 450 lbs.
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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