Crown wheel torque settings/pre load? -ARB locker - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old March 27th, 2011, 09:48 AM
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Paul Koentges
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Crown wheel torque settings/pre load? -ARB locker

swapping in GBR's 414"s this weekend...

found one reference in the manual crown wheel to diff case 111 - 125 ft/lbs...is that correct? Locktite...

-pre-load bearings: make sure I understand this correctly,
-my OEM pinion gear did not have any shims installed;
-setting bearing pre-load; I understand that when using original (seated) bearings, torque is 15lbs +/- on drive flange nut.
- two sets/sizes of shims came packaged with the GBR R & P's; am I correct that the shims (if needed) go between the bearing and gear (before I install the bearing on the pinion flange) and that I install the same thickness of shims at both the inner and out bearings?

thanks...

now if someone can pop on over and pull my 3-link for me so I can get to the front diff....:
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  #2  
Old March 27th, 2011, 10:05 AM
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OEM pinion would have a shim. I have never seen one without. It will look more like a spacer than the shims that came with your gears.
You will need to set your pinion height which is the big shims
The small shims are for the pinion pre load.
Sorry, that's all I can get right now. (got to run off)...........but I'm sure you'll get plenty of help here. At the risk of sounding rude I'd suggest that you get hands on help from someone who has done this before.
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new expansion complete. Not only are we the only Rover shop in Eliot Maine...now we're also the biggest.

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  #3  
Old March 27th, 2011, 10:28 AM
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Paul Koentges
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got it... thanks...
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  #4  
Old March 27th, 2011, 07:46 PM
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Try searching or going to Yukon Gear. Someone has to have a good write up on this. It is pretty involved to get a good set-up for the novice and I'm sure some photos might help. I'm in and out for the next few days and there isn't a prayer that I can get that done.
Check those torque specs. The pinion pre load is in inch pounds IFRC.
Be patient and take your time. I've had to re-do more owner built diffs that I can remember and sometimes it isn't really even possible to get good results with gears that have been driven on a bad set up for long. Don't settle.
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new expansion complete. Not only are we the only Rover shop in Eliot Maine...now we're also the biggest.

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  #5  
Old March 28th, 2011, 09:31 AM
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Paul Koentges
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more questions...update

Thanks for the advice...see questions below...

I am comfortable with the project and understand contact pattern, preload, etc.

I was somewhat confused about the two-shim packs I received: both sets are used on the pinion gear and are installed behind the bearing race/cups and housing; they are provided in case the original shims are damaged when replacing the bearings/cups. I am reusing my bearings so I won't be using them...additionally, the smaller shims are also used for bearing preload and are installed between the pinion head and out bearing; mine was 1/8" thick so I thought it was a spacer (in addtion to the outer spacer between the oil seal and bearing)

Update;
-pulled rear 3rd (one man job if using jack), inspected, no metal shavings in oil (used magnet); removed diff etc. (marked L & R bearing caps, noted orientation, took picture before removal)
-planned to reuse bearings, (under 60 K original miles), noted one carrier bearing race has wear so will be replacing both sides. Bearings pulled out easily.
-Pinion bearings look good, having trouble removing the pinion head bearing with my puller, will borrow a press/bearing puller later on today.
-cleaned, painted housing,
-installed new carrier bearings to ARB, not sure if they are completely seated...will verify when setting preload.
-installed ring gear to ARB @ 65ft/lbs & loctite (gradually tightened opposite bolts, typ star pattern)...will check runout just in case. ? correct torque.
-will follow up with pictures on contact pattern once I have set backlash, preload etc...
-not sure how to measure carrier bearing preload; ARB suggests 1/4 turn of nut as starting point; Bill @ GBR has said that most installs don't have enough preload...suggestions? Is there a special tool that I can use with my torque wrench?
-will be back in garage this afternoon...
-3-link; bolts are a pain in the ass, having trouble removing center link bolt; supported axel, removed all bolts and will lower 3-link just enough to clear 3rd member removal.
-driveline bolts were partially worn (wrong wrench in the past) and difficult to remove...will replace along with new U-joints (old joints will become trail spares).

-follow-up to come
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  #6  
Old March 28th, 2011, 02:01 PM
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If you are replacing the pinion you will need to re shim unless by some remarkably fortunate alignment of several stars (see note) the pinion height matches. Start with the old shim and check. I live in hope but have never had this yield an optimum result.
I set carrier pre load by tightening the off side (away from the gear) until you reach a zero backlash. Tighten bearing cap, not to full torque, but enough to hold. Tighten gear side until correct backlash, usually about .005-.007. Torque caps and check. Never had a problem with that, although Bill might .

note; go buy a lottery ticket
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new expansion complete. Not only are we the only Rover shop in Eliot Maine...now we're also the biggest.

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  #7  
Old March 28th, 2011, 02:59 PM
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Paul Koentges
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tricks of the trade...pinion height/preload adjustment makes sense as I have plenty of shims.
no real mystery to the project once yoou understand how everything is suppose to work.

-got the 3-link to drop far enough so I can pull the front 3rd member.
-I would hate to try a trail fix on the front with a 3-link suspension...
-probably will replace the ball joints since everything is apart, including pitman arm (I just like abuse)

updates later
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Old March 28th, 2011, 08:47 PM
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[QUOTE=PMKColorado;274149]
no real mystery to the project once yoou understand how everything is suppose to work.
/QUOTE]

words to live by
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new expansion complete. Not only are we the only Rover shop in Eliot Maine...now we're also the biggest.

"Dedicated to the resurrection of junk through engineering?"
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  #9  
Old March 29th, 2011, 10:53 AM
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note the difference Fr & rear...why would the crown (ring gear) have different torque settings front and rear?

From the service manual;

FRONT AXLE
Crown wheel to differential case ..............................40-45 lbf ft
Differential bearing cap to pinion housing ................. 54-74
REAR AXLE AND FINAL DRIVE
Crown wheel to differential case .............................. 111-125
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  #10  
Old March 29th, 2011, 11:08 AM
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Are those possibly 110 specs, and the Salisbury has different torque specs? I can't imagine a reason for a difference on standard LR 3rd members. And I know mine in my RRC were done identically, side by side on the bench.
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  #11  
Old March 29th, 2011, 11:18 AM
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that's what I thought...the Land Rover service manual breaks out the different axels/diffs and refers torque settings back to a torque wrench settings table without differentiating axel types...

I have sent Bill @ GBR an email...enquiry.
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  #12  
Old March 29th, 2011, 09:22 PM
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Those are Salisbury torque specs. I think I mentioned that. You may have had two threads going or something.

------ Follow up post added March 29th, 2011 09:26 PM ------

yup, just looked back at post #2 in your original thread. I'm a tad relieved that the medication apparently works and I'm not imagining that I've done things (again)
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new expansion complete. Not only are we the only Rover shop in Eliot Maine...now we're also the biggest.

"Dedicated to the resurrection of junk through engineering?"
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  #13  
Old April 10th, 2011, 08:34 PM
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ARB lockers installed & new R & P

Finished the install F & R...work perfectly, no leaks; installed ARBCKSA 12 compact compressor and will use CO2 for tires.

-not that difficult of a job if you have a couple of special tools and understand preload, backlash, and pinion height... 414's (reverse cut front) gears are running quite; thanks Bill of GBR. Would recommend leaving the job to the pros/shops unless you really like working on your truck or have mechanical experience…easily a weekend project if everything comes apart reasonably fast and you don’t second guess yourself (backlash/ gear pattern). I spent more time on a couple of stubborn driveline bolts and dropping/installing the 3-link than building the 3rd’s.

-ARB air lockers kit is very complete; however, the instructions are not sufficient if you don't have a good understanding or experience with what you are doing.

- I ran the airlines inside some clear surplus tubing at all sharp turns and anywhere there could be abrasion (lots of zip ties to break lines & across axel tubes breather lines). Compressor is mounted in the engine bay drivers side behind the horn, fastened to the fender lip with a custom bracket to the wheel well… worked out great.

-running 2800 RPM at 70 MPH and 4th gear easily pulls up I-70 mountain grade...what a difference over 3.54's on 285's. I haven’t tested acceleration as the R & P need to break in for 500 miles or so…

-replaced all the tie-rod ends, pitman arm etc. while I was at it...mileage 68K...really weren't very loose.
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  #14  
Old April 11th, 2011, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PMKColorado View Post
Compressor is mounted in the engine bay drivers side behind the horn, fastened to the fender lip with a custom bracket to the wheel well… worked out great.
I did the same and was quite chuffed until it needed maintenance. If I ever do it again, I'll mount it in a more easily accessible location.
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