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  #41  
Old April 3rd, 2010, 11:10 PM
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Charles Galpin
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Pretty sure but I'll double check it.
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  #42  
Old April 3rd, 2010, 11:12 PM
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If it is the rear main, it will only be the second one I have seen actually bad. Did you look at it while the bearing cap was out?
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  #43  
Old April 3rd, 2010, 11:18 PM
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Charles Galpin
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It looked good from the outside. Kind of hard to tell the condition of the seal when installed. I took a (crappy) picture but too lazy to go up and get the camera right now. Will post tomorrow or Monday. The main bearing sleeve had grooves in it which didn't seem right to me, but maybe they channel oil? I guess the pictures will tell.
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  #44  
Old April 4th, 2010, 12:00 PM
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Charles Galpin
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Pictures.

http://gallery.lhsw.com/view_photo.p...om&id=DSC04856
http://gallery.lhsw.com/view_photo.p...om&id=DSC04858
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  #45  
Old April 4th, 2010, 12:06 PM
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The scoring is just wear on the bearing. No copper is showing and I will withhold judgment until someone with more motor building experience chimes in, but seem normal and ok for a 25 year old 150k 3.5 V8.

BTW any chance it is the head gaskets or valley pan ends leaking and dripping down the back of the motor and not the rear main?
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  #46  
Old April 4th, 2010, 09:06 PM
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Charles Galpin
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Yeah I cleaned the engine to make sure. Some weeping at the screws that hold down the valve covers, but not much else. Certainly nothing like the leak and no evidence of it from above. Breather is clear.
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  #47  
Old April 6th, 2010, 09:51 AM
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Thanks for this post. I am about to start working on a NAS 1993 110 I picked up. First job will e to replace the oil pan gasket while replacing the oil cooler lines (originals).

My two one-man Ferrari shop owner friends swear by Loctite 510/515/518 for sealing surfaces either with or without gaskets. 515 and 518 are used for the tough to seal areas. I have seen the results of a V-12 put together with black rtv, the excess oozed into the inside of the engine, clogging the oil pump pickup and then with the consequences.

I intend to use 518 to lightly coat my cross seals before installing.
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  #48  
Old December 10th, 2012, 11:39 AM
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Bill Campbell
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So in the attached pic which is the "old" seal and which is the "new"? Finally getting around to this and want to make sure I have the "new" seals before I do it. Argh doesn't show the attached pic from the quoted post. One has short crosses and the other has a long cross making the seal look more like a plus sign. Anyone know which one is the "new" one?

B

Quote:
Originally Posted by don View Post
So I started this job yesterday and have been picking away at it a bit. Got the oil pick up cleaned up and reinstalled. And got the cross seal/main out using Neil's technique. I still need to clean out the oil pan and it's been soaking in gas for a day. I'm going to take my time and clean that thing up good.

A couple things to add as I found out while doing the job. It might be elementary to many but I was a little confused until I did it. I heard people say to pull the starter. That is just for the 4.0 motors with the cross bolts. The 3.9 in my '95 just has the 2 bolts - and I also had to take the tranny cover out. Getting the main out was a bear for me. But the rubber mallet and a little prying helped. Cleaned the main up as best I could and used a little Right Stuff in the channels before putting in the cross seal. I have one pic attached with the old cross seal and the new one which I got from George @ RDS. Per the vid below I pre-torqued to 13.5 NM but will torque to 92nm before the pan goes on.

My guess is like Ron says and these were the old style cross seals and were leaking. The inside of the tranny cover was very dirty (but luckily easy to clean) and it looks like most of the grim started from that cross seal area. The front of the pain wasn't too bad.

I found this vid while searching cross seals: Seemed to help me a bit. That block is the 4 bolt main version.

And I took some pics as it may help whomever looks to do it next. The pics will have the cross (or crucifix) seal comparison, the main reinstalled, the dirty tranny cover and the oil pick up cleaned up.
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  #49  
Old December 10th, 2012, 12:11 PM
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Short cross is the new one.
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  #50  
Old December 10th, 2012, 12:42 PM
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I did this job about 2 years ago and it started to weep about a year later. Used right stuff sealant and everything. Even changed the rear crank shaft seal and the pan gasket (right stuff). Wonder what happened.
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  #51  
Old December 10th, 2012, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil McCauley View Post
I did this job about 2 years ago and it started to weep about a year later. Used right stuff sealant and everything. Even changed the rear crank shaft seal and the pan gasket (right stuff). Wonder what happened.
Did you use the new style seal? I take is used right stuff means you used rights stuff as you are supposed to on the ends?
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  #52  
Old December 10th, 2012, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
Did you use the new style seal? I take is used right stuff means you used rights stuff as you are supposed to on the ends?
Yeah I got the new style seals, put them on correctly and everything. I used right stuff the sealant to seal. Just a bit nothing crazy. I gotta take the motor out anyway so I'll see what happened. Mabye I torqued the bearing cap down too tight.
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  #53  
Old December 10th, 2012, 01:35 PM
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Bill Campbell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post

Gracias. Looks like I have the new ones. Time to pull that pan off and get'em done.

Thanks for the quick response.

B
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  #54  
Old December 12th, 2012, 08:07 PM
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Bill Campbell
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So it looks like the trans protection plate also has a gasket on the top of it and had some gasket maker on the back of it. Sound right?

So do I need to replace that top gasket or can I reuse the old one? Right stuff ok for the back of the plate?

B
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  #55  
Old December 13th, 2012, 12:11 AM
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Bill Campbell
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Gracias. Btw I still dont see how the cross seals leak outside the oil pan. But in D-90.com I trust.

B
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  #56  
Old December 16th, 2012, 01:14 PM
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Bill Campbell
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So I just finished this job and I have some questions.

First how do I know the rear main seal seated back correctly? Is there any way to tell? It just seemed kind of floaty.

Also the manual page that Briggs has says not to get any oil on the rear main but I did. Do I need to pull clean and redo?

B
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  #57  
Old December 18th, 2012, 10:09 PM
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Bill Campbell
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Anyone out there that has done this job want to comment?
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  #58  
Old December 19th, 2012, 10:14 AM
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Bill Campbell
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Ya it moved when I pulled the rear main cap. It didn't sit real tight on the shaft that it is on. So I just pushed it back to where it was and put the bearing cap back on after changing out the cross seals. I am guessing it will become painfully obvious if the seal is not seated?
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  #59  
Old December 19th, 2012, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post
The painful part is if you want to replace it you have to pull the transmission.

-Jeff

Ya I just want to know if I have to replace it. Imagine a fountain of oil will tell me if I have to.
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  #60  
Old September 9th, 2015, 08:56 PM
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by don View Post
So I started this job yesterday and have been picking away at it a bit. Got the oil pick up cleaned up and reinstalled. And got the cross seal/main out using Neil's technique. I still need to clean out the oil pan and it's been soaking in gas for a day. I'm going to take my time and clean that thing up good.

A couple things to add as I found out while doing the job. It might be elementary to many but I was a little confused until I did it. I heard people say to pull the starter. That is just for the 4.0 motors with the cross bolts. The 3.9 in my '95 just has the 2 bolts - and I also had to take the tranny cover out. Getting the main out was a bear for me. But the rubber mallet and a little prying helped. Cleaned the main up as best I could and used a little Right Stuff in the channels before putting in the cross seal. I have one pic attached with the old cross seal and the new one which I got from George @ RDS. Per the vid below I pre-torqued to 13.5 NM but will torque to 92nm before the pan goes on.

My guess is like Ron says and these were the old style cross seals and were leaking. The inside of the tranny cover was very dirty (but luckily easy to clean) and it looks like most of the grim started from that cross seal area. The front of the pain wasn't too bad.

I found this vid while searching cross seals: Seemed to help me a bit. That block is the 4 bolt main version.

And I took some pics as it may help whomever looks to do it next. The pics will have the cross (or crucifix) seal comparison, the main reinstalled, the dirty tranny cover and the oil pick up cleaned up.
Interesting, they do not apply any sealant between the mating surfaces on the rear cap and block, only on the cross seal area.
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