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  #21  
Old September 10th, 2009, 11:37 PM
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Bill Lewis
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Just curious. What is the symptoms of this kind of leak? I mean how would a leak in the cross seals, cause and external leak? I am looking at the manual and it seems like those seals are all enclosed in the sump... I am seeing oil on the starter side of the pan and blowing back when driving, but other than that it doesn't drip leak when sitting.

just curious,
bill
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  #22  
Old September 11th, 2009, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kolvedic
Just curious. What is the symptoms of this kind of leak? I mean how would a leak in the cross seals, cause and external leak? I am looking at the manual and it seems like those seals are all enclosed in the sump... I am seeing oil on the starter side of the pan and blowing back when driving, but other than that it doesn't drip leak when sitting.

just curious,
bill
My oil pan seal was shot and wanted to knock this out while I was in there. After speaking with the Rover Shoppe, the suggested that I use Right Stuff as opposed to the OEM type cross seals.

And yes it is a four bolt main. On the drivers side, its no big deal, but on the passenger side, you have to remove the starter to get room to it.
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  #23  
Old September 23rd, 2009, 12:02 PM
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Bill Campbell
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P/N or Description

Anyone have a part number on the cross seals or a description of what they look like? I haven't done them before and the rover is getting leaky in that area.

B
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  #24  
Old September 23rd, 2009, 06:58 PM
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Andrew Najarian
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http://www.roversdownsouth.com/image...ne/ERR2640.JPG

The two pieces in the center of the rear main seal in this picture are the cross seals or crucifix seals as they are sometimes called. You should thoroughly clean the gasket surfaces, put a little rightstuff in the valleys, place the cross seals in and press them in firmly. You will likely have to trim the right stuff and seal at the oil pan gasket surface once the main cap is installed.
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  #25  
Old September 23rd, 2009, 07:53 PM
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I ended up returning the seals and sealing the two areas completely with right stuff. Vic at the Rover Shoppe told me that since they started doing it this way he never had to deal with those seals on a repeat basis.

I am still wondering what the point of the seals are in the first place?
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  #26  
Old September 23rd, 2009, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97-D90-736
I ended up returning the seals and sealing the two areas completely with right stuff. Vic at the Rover Shoppe told me that since they started doing it this way he never had to deal with those seals on a repeat basis.

I am still wondering what the point of the seals are in the first place?
hmm...using only Right Stuff...that must be a ton of fun to remove rear cap if needed...
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  #27  
Old September 23rd, 2009, 11:35 PM
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It's probably not any tougher than removing it when we smear it all over the seals. I never thought of substituting rightstuff entirely.
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  #28  
Old September 25th, 2009, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stmpede
http://www.roversdownsouth.com/image...ne/ERR2640.JPG

The two pieces in the center of the rear main seal in this picture are the cross seals or crucifix seals as they are sometimes called. You should thoroughly clean the gasket surfaces, put a little rightstuff in the valleys, place the cross seals in and press them in firmly. You will likely have to trim the right stuff and seal at the oil pan gasket surface once the main cap is installed.
Gracias. Just what I needed.

B
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  #29  
Old October 9th, 2009, 04:57 PM
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hehe....gonna do this too, thanks Ron <3
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  #30  
Old February 1st, 2010, 07:26 PM
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Just a recap to end the thread and a few answers to some unanswered questions here. I just finished this job yesterday and first off, upon inspecting the rear bearing cap, the parts where the rear portion of this cap meets the block is actually exposed between the tranny cover and oil pan. This is where the oil leaks out when the seals go bad. I'm pretty sure that use of dino oil is what causes the seals here to go bad because they usually make rubber seals hard. Glad I only use synthetic now. I pulled the rear main cap by screwing two oil pan bolts into the rear portion of it so my fingers can grasp at it and then used a rubber mallot to knock it loose then worked it back and forth til it came off. When you take off the bearing cap, you'll notice that the rear main seal may move around. Mine did as it could go fore and aft but obviously you can't remove it. I just positioned it towards the crankshaft side and then slipped the cap back on then torqued it. I drove it around last nite and checked it this morning, so far no leak! Thanks D90 your the best! :D
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  #31  
Old February 25th, 2010, 09:56 PM
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So I started this job yesterday and have been picking away at it a bit. Got the oil pick up cleaned up and reinstalled. And got the cross seal/main out using Neil's technique. I still need to clean out the oil pan and it's been soaking in gas for a day. I'm going to take my time and clean that thing up good.

A couple things to add as I found out while doing the job. It might be elementary to many but I was a little confused until I did it. I heard people say to pull the starter. That is just for the 4.0 motors with the cross bolts. The 3.9 in my '95 just has the 2 bolts - and I also had to take the tranny cover out. Getting the main out was a bear for me. But the rubber mallet and a little prying helped. Cleaned the main up as best I could and used a little Right Stuff in the channels before putting in the cross seal. I have one pic attached with the old cross seal and the new one which I got from George @ RDS. Per the vid below I pre-torqued to 13.5 NM but will torque to 92nm before the pan goes on.

My guess is like Ron says and these were the old style cross seals and were leaking. The inside of the tranny cover was very dirty (but luckily easy to clean) and it looks like most of the grim started from that cross seal area. The front of the pain wasn't too bad.

I found this vid while searching cross seals: Seemed to help me a bit. That block is the 4 bolt main version.

And I took some pics as it may help whomever looks to do it next. The pics will have the cross (or crucifix) seal comparison, the main reinstalled, the dirty tranny cover and the oil pick up cleaned up.
Attached Thumbnails
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  #32  
Old February 25th, 2010, 09:59 PM
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Nice work don and good on your for the pictures.

edit: and Neil for the summary.

Ron
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  #33  
Old February 25th, 2010, 10:09 PM
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Nice work don and good on your for the pictures.

edit: and Neil for the summary.

Ron
Thanks Ron. Like you said it's not that tough of a job. A little dirty but hopefully I'll put it together correctly and she'll be leak free (or leak a little less). I don't know if other people are like me but pictures help out a lot. I could read a "how-to" article 50 times and still be scratching my head. But give me a good picture or 2 and I'll know it pretty quickly. Hopefully they will help the next Nigel that goes for it.
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  #34  
Old February 26th, 2010, 12:28 AM
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I'm about to assemble my engine--I'll give it a go--makes total sense as long as it's clean and I'm thorough.

------ Follow up post added February 26th, 2010 06:55 AM ------

!!Don!! The 13.5nm is just the pre-tighten amount. You then have to do another round of tightening. I can't recall if all engines are the same--especially comparing the two different diameter main bearing journals of the 3.9/4.2 vs 4.0/4.6. The youtube video above listed a couple different torques for the main rear and the other bearings--check it out, but I would still double check versus your engine type.
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  #35  
Old February 26th, 2010, 02:23 AM
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Looking good Don. Don't forget to trim off the cross seal flush with the oil pan mounting surface before installing the pan.
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  #36  
Old February 26th, 2010, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Davis View Post
I'm about to assemble my engine--I'll give it a go--makes total sense as long as it's clean and I'm thorough.

------ Follow up post added February 26th, 2010 06:55 AM ------

!!Don!! The 13.5nm is just the pre-tighten amount. You then have to do another round of tightening. I can't recall if all engines are the same--especially comparing the two different diameter main bearing journals of the 3.9/4.2 vs 4.0/4.6. The youtube video above listed a couple different torques for the main rear and the other bearings--check it out, but I would still double check versus your engine type.
Hey thanks Chris - yeah, it seemed on the lower side and I am certainly going to get the right figures before the pan goes back on.

------ Follow up post added February 26th, 2010 07:09 AM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stmpede View Post
Looking good Don. Don't forget to trim off the cross seal flush with the oil pan mounting surface before installing the pan.
Thanks - will definitely do. At first I thought it would be fine to keep out but makes sense to cut flush so the Right Stuff will seal better.

------ Follow up post added February 26th, 2010 07:39 AM ------

Can't change the first post to say the 13.5nm is pre-torque so I'll add this: vid says 92nm for the rear main cap bolts and the LR Defender manual I have on pdf says 88-95nm so I'll use the 92nm figure.
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  #37  
Old February 26th, 2010, 08:51 AM
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Thanks Don, this is going to help me when I finally get around to doing this on Janey!

Fixed the torque #s in your post for you.
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  #38  
Old February 26th, 2010, 01:48 PM
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Thanks Don, this is going to help me when I finally get around to doing this on Janey!

Fixed the torque #s in your post for you.
Thanks Charles - I would hate to have someone put it all together with the lower torque figure by accident.
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  #39  
Old April 3rd, 2010, 10:54 PM
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Finally got around to doing this today on Janey. Easy as pie, but didn't stop the leak for me. Must be the rear main. Sigh.
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  #40  
Old April 3rd, 2010, 10:57 PM
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Finally got around to doing this today on Janey. Easy as pie, but didn't stop the leak for me. Must be the rear main. Sigh.
Is the breather clean? Sometimes if the breather is plugged it blows out the rear main seal.
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