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  #21  
Old January 30th, 2014, 08:44 AM
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Phillip
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Im thinking that spark is a little weak. Do you have another coil you could try.
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  #22  
Old January 30th, 2014, 08:46 AM
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Why would the engine flood if the injectors were firing at their leanest amount after just a few cranks?

I am used to engines starting and dying long before the cylinders flood.

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  #23  
Old January 30th, 2014, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o2batsea View Post
The runaway condition is possibly due to the IACV being WFO. Bypass air is entering the plenum and the engine is getting a lot of air. However, because that air is not being monitored by the MAS, the ECU is not fueling the mixture properly. The ECU is getting a signal from the IACV that it is open, so it is allowing the bandwidth of the injectors to be full on.
The IACV opens during deceleration to allow bypass air into the plenum to prevent a stall condition when the vehicle is moving but the TPS sensor says the wellington is off the pedal.
Starting may be difficult because the rich warm-up mixture is now extra lean. This is especially the case in the cold where the air is more dense but the mixture is now very thin. You have spark, but not enough volatile emulsion to light a fire. Spraying ether in the plenum richens the mixture enough that the engine fires. Then the (sensed) WFO condition engages a runaway.
Just as a test, plug the air pipe (both ends) to the IACV, and try to start. If it goes, then you've nailed the problem,
This sounds logical, and what Jason has been telling me as well. When we were at Jarek's we were only able to get it to start using Ether/starting fluid. We did this with the inertia switch unplugged, then plugged it in immediately once it started on Ether. This would further support that it's a mixture issue on start-up.

The run-away sound when it actually started, was due to the throttle cable being stuck because the little clip on the throttle cable bracket dislodged when they were opening the air at the plenum.

I have a new coil, and will continue moving down the list of parts if the above does not work.

I would completely agree on the Mallory system (and it may still be the culprit) but this had happened a few times before I went with the Mallory system. It could definitely be that whatever issue there was beforehand, is still there, and has been compounded by the new foreign ignition system. We'll see.
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  #24  
Old January 30th, 2014, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jymmiejamz View Post
That last video sounds like your starter is not engaging into the flywheel. Mine did that occasionally before it failed completely.
Geez I hope that's not the case (fail completely). It's a 1 year old Magnetti Marelli. It had been flawless until right then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jymmiejamz View Post
FYI if you think you have flooded it, instead of removing the spark plugs, you can just unplug the inertia switch and floor it while cranking. That should clear out any unburnt fuel.
Didn't know that. Thought you had to remove the plugs. That'll save me some time.

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Originally Posted by Jymmiejamz View Post
Could your fuel rail be rusted out internally causing injectors to be stuck open? IIRC 14CUX trucks had problems with rusting fuel rails.
Not sure if this rules that out, but when it was running last weekend we had used a stethescope to listen to the pulsating -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-. of the injectors.
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  #25  
Old January 30th, 2014, 01:37 PM
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I know it sounds too easy but I have had the rotor short circuit through the centre right to the centre post.. Slap another rotor in it and all was great..was getting great spark to the cap but terrible to nothing at the spark plug..
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  #26  
Old January 30th, 2014, 01:51 PM
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Josh, your engine is bank fire. That means that all the injectors on the right fire at the same time and all the injectors on the left fire at the same time. So it's R,L,R,L,R,L....4 times each per engine cycle (two complete revolutions of the crankshaft, so 8 total injection events per cycle). Only the valve that is open at the time actually sucks fuel out of the injector. The others don't spit cz there's nowhere for the fuel to go in the neutral atmosphere of the intake runner. This is one reason why these engines get such poor gas mileage. There is always some bit of fuel that gets in the runner even tho the bore is busy on a different stroke of the cycle. Modern engines use SFI (sequential fuel injection) so that only the injector on an opening valve gets to fire.
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  #27  
Old January 30th, 2014, 02:19 PM
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The difference in economy between batch injection and sequential injection is very little to nil.
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  #28  
Old February 25th, 2014, 03:24 PM
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So over the weekend I switched all of the spark plugs again with Champion 404 RN12YC gapped to .035 and installed new spark plug wires. I also installed a new Valve Cover Ventilator - Flame Trap (ERC248), one of those little Valve Cover Filters (ERC3209), a new IACV stepper from Delco Delphi CV10033, and a new air filter. Then I re-connected the ECU after the new IACV was installed. Cleaned the MAF again, used some electronic cleaner on the sensor plugs. Before installing the latest spark plugs I set them all up in firing order on the plenum and confirmed they all sparked. By that point the battery was dying, so it was hard to do any further tests. Crank was weak, but it's also been a few months since it's been driven as regularly as it is when it's working properly, so that's to be expected I guess.

I had a friend come over and we jumped his battery to mine, and we sprayed some starter fluid into the plenum with the fuel inertia switch disconnected, it didn't start RIGHT up, but it did start up. Reconnected inertia switch so that it would run on its own fuel, then connected the air hose.

Drove it around a few blocks, noticed it was lurching a bit when I was decellerating in 2nd gear but would idle normally if I quickly threw my foot on the clutch. Exhaust smelled like unburnt fuel, the engine temp never went above 140 degrees according to the ECU Mate, but these could have been the air intake/air cleaner hose related though, because I had re-installed it quickly after getting it started (but it's all buttoned up now and tight) so maybe we can ignore that for now until I can confirm it happens again.

I let the truck idle for about 40 minutes while I uninstalled the front boosts and put on the spacers. Truck idled fine.

Shut the truck off, buttoned up everything under the hood once more, made sure the MAF to plenum hose was all tight and everything was buttoned up. Then I tried to start it under its own fuel and IT STARTED. The exhaust fuel smell is still there, some white exhaust smoke was coming out even though it had just been running for an hour.

Battery read 12.7 Volts when off and I'll see where it holds over the next few days of inactivity. The alternator was feeding 14.5 Volts or so to it.
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  #29  
Old February 25th, 2014, 03:52 PM
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Long ago learned when messing with anything on the ignition side to do just one thing at a time then start and drive it.
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  #30  
Old February 25th, 2014, 04:19 PM
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Now you just need to get rid of the Optima batteries.
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  #31  
Old February 25th, 2014, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Jymmiejamz View Post
Now you just need to get rid of the Optima batteries.
They have sentimental value.
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  #32  
Old February 25th, 2014, 04:34 PM
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I once went thru all this crazy stuff over the course of three weekends with my first RRC. No matter what I did the engine ran poorly. Then, it came to me that I had been timing off the number 1 cylinder....FOR A FORD.
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  #33  
Old March 17th, 2014, 02:10 PM
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94 NAS D90 3.9 wont start. Same symptoms here.

Was running fine. Sat overnight. Cranks but wont start. Spits occasionally but will not turn over. Fuses good. Fuel Pump working. Replaced Fuel Filter. Fuel looked OK. Even emptied tank and filled with fresh high-test. Tried ether start at air filter. No go. Have spark. Should I try replacing the old Lucas Throttle Management Sensor?

Also as a side note does anyone know if the air filter housing lid matters. Mine is missing. Do they run better with our without the cover on?
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  #34  
Old March 17th, 2014, 02:34 PM
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If you tried starting it a bunch of times, you may have flooded it and it won't start on Ether. Happened to me a few times. Also, I do ether start at the plenum when/if needed.

To follow-up on my escapade the truck is now running after replacing the above. It idled fine on Friday afternoon before I embarked into NYC to pick up the dog. On the way into the Holland Tunnel it died while idling in traffic. Tried restarting it and it wouldn't immediately start. Pulled it off to the side and the gf and I started it with ether. Idle was still rough/low/inconsistent and tried to die a few more times but I managed it with throttle (realllllllllllllllllllllllly didn't want to die in the Holland Tunnel!). I'm going to replace a few more of the vacuum lines and then investigate further if it persists. Also, the truck is running a little on the cool side.
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