Countersink Oil Seal on rear of Rotor/Hub - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old July 22nd, 2010, 11:01 PM
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Dr. Gonzo
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Countersink Oil Seal on rear of Rotor/Hub

While not claiming master mechanic level skills, I was fairly proud of my recent brake R&R project. I stopped in at my mechanic today to check out a 110 he's working on, and let him know my D90 would be next in line for some maintenance.

We were talking brakes and he asked me if I had countersunk the rear/outer oil seal 3mm below the rim of the hub. He said if I didn't, it would get chewed up.

Now I checked the service manual, which recommends using a special tool, but gives no specific tolerances. I re-watched the video from the goofy landroverworkshopdvd.com guy on YouTube where he does this exact job, and no mention of installing the seal 3mm below the lip. Finally, when I removed the rotors initially, I'm almost certain the seals were flush with the lip.

Any thoughts on this? I'm really not relishing the idea of removing the calipers and tearing the hubs apart again to reseat the seals....

Thanks.
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  #2  
Old July 23rd, 2010, 06:52 AM
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Tom Rowe
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The manual states recessing 4mm.
For a tool I use a hub drive flange.
Some folks use an old bearing race.
http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/s...ng-hubseal.jpg
http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/s...eal-recess.jpg
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  #3  
Old July 23rd, 2010, 07:50 AM
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Blake Pendleton
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goddamnit. There goes my weekend.
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  #4  
Old July 23rd, 2010, 09:23 AM
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Tom Rowe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by founD90 View Post
Any thoughts on this? I'm really not relishing the idea of removing the calipers and tearing the hubs apart again to reseat the seals....
Did you use RTC3511 seals? If you did, I'd recess them. If not, I'd get the 3511's and replace them, recessing them to the correct depth.

Or you can just keep an eye on them and only replace if they fail.
I'm not really sure which I'd do, which would win, my compulsiveness or my laziness.
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  #5  
Old July 23rd, 2010, 09:42 AM
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He and I bought the same kit:

FTC2783- Hub Oil Seal Inner

http://www.roverparts.com/Parts/9995F.cfm
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  #6  
Old July 23rd, 2010, 09:49 AM
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Yeah - the AB kit has the more flexible seals. Which is what was on the truck when I did the R&R. In fact, 3/4 wheels had the inner lip of the seal on the inside, and one had the lip on the top/outside. All were flush with the hub. Is there a different spec depending on which seal is being used?
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  #7  
Old July 23rd, 2010, 02:05 PM
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On genuine (and most Bearmach type non-genuines, but not all) it's moulded into the rubber of the seal "Fit to depth 4mm"


It's easy to do.... easiest way (to make sure you don't damage the seal), when you next change your wheel bearings, keep one of the halves of the bearing (not the bit with the rollers in, the other "ring" bit), get an angle grinder, and cut a slot straight through it perpendicular to the edge, this will allow you to squeeze it (with hand pressure) to get it back out of the hub.

So, you offer the seal up, place the bearing ring over it ("thin" edge onto the seal...you'll see what I mean when you offer it up) then with a piece of solid metal being held ecross the back of the metal ring (a decent sized spanner is fine) tap it in the middle and you can press the seal in nice and squarely. no damage, nothing, as the metal ring is exactly the right diameter as the seal. almost like they designed it this way! (or maybe just that the seal seals the bearing, so it's bound to be the same size)

As for depth.... keep tapping it in until it stops... there's a recessed "lip" inside the hub that will stop the deal from going right in, and handily enough, it makes the seal stop at 4mm.
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  #8  
Old July 25th, 2010, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rijosho View Post
FTC2783- Hub Oil Seal Inner
It's hard to tell for sure, but those look like the seals that don't do too good a job of keeping water out of your hubs. I've replaced all of mine with RTC3511 and that's all I use.
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  #9  
Old July 25th, 2010, 09:31 AM
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I've kind of deduced that most people are using the RTC3511's. I think for my needs (not necessarily Josh) the ones I have installed, and the way they are installed are fine for now. I'm going to buy a set of 3511 and put them in my stash. One of these days I'll replace, but first I'll get some driving satisfaction out of the truck.

Anecdotally, it seems that the 3511's are more rigid, and the spec to countersink them is a bit more important. The FTC2783 is a much softer seal, and if you get it at the lip, or slightly below, it should be fine (at least according to a couple people I've talked to)

I know my softer FTC2783 seals are at least flush, if not slightly below so I'll just keep an eye on them until I'm feeling the need to tear it all apart!
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  #10  
Old July 25th, 2010, 03:44 PM
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Tom Rowe
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I should point out the RTC3511 aren't as thick as the others, so if you install them to the point where they stop at the bearing race, they will be deeper than 4mm.
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Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck
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62 88 Regular
67 109 6cyl NADA x2
74 Lightweight - The Antichrist
95 DI 5-speed
95 D90 5-speed
97 D1 Automatic
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  #11  
Old June 26th, 2011, 10:25 PM
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Bugger, looks like I just made this mistake on my rears with FTC2783 seals. Does anyone have an opinion on how well these will hold up without recessing them?

thanks,
charles
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  #12  
Old June 26th, 2011, 10:46 PM
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Charles, in order to answer that I would have to know what the exact symptoms of a bad seal would be. That said, best I can tell after being installed for nearly a year as described in my original post, my brakes are showing no problems that I can see or feel.
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  #13  
Old June 26th, 2011, 10:50 PM
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You'd see oil leaking down the inside of the rotor

I'll pull them and re-seat them. Feeling sheepish for the mistake though
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  #14  
Old July 2nd, 2011, 07:04 PM
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Charles Galpin
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Just as a followup, I pulled the hubs and the seals were probably 2/3rds seated from tightening/seating the hub bearings, so would probably have been just fine. I just didn't feel comfortable not checking.
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