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  #1  
Old September 29th, 2013, 11:36 PM
Hudson
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Cooling after full width intercooler install

A few months ago I installed a full width intercooler on my 200tdi because the original was shot and I wanted to tune up the injector pump. I knew I'd lose some engine cooling efficiency since the intercooler blocks most of the radiator, but it's a bit beyond what I'm comfortable with. The temp gauge gets to within 1-2 needle widths of the end of the white/OK range and hangs out there pretty much no matter what I do. The cooling system is otherwise healthy and functional, so I'm wondering what options there are for further cooling.
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  #2  
Old September 30th, 2013, 12:05 AM
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Frank Rafka
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The best thing you can do is run a electric fan and do you have a EGT gauge? Change the gauges to the VDO stuff so you have accurate indicators and that will help to determine if you have a actual issue...I'm running a Kenlow fan that came on mine (which even in the heat out here hardly runs) and run under 190 all the time in 100 plus temps. A EGT gauge will be your best friend especially if you've changed the fueling.
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Old September 30th, 2013, 12:19 AM
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Are you positive your fan viscous unit is locking up?
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Old September 30th, 2013, 12:25 AM
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Frank Rafka
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Simple test for the viscous fan, roll up a magazine and see if you can stop the fan while running at idle...
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Old September 30th, 2013, 07:12 AM
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Hudson:
You've gotten very good advice so far on this thread.
The only thing worth adding are some radiator expansion suggestion and a few words of caution.

If you have a copper & brass radiator, it is possible to re-core your radiator with a thicker core that has more rows. This will have a larger cooling capacity and thus better efficiency, but like all radiators will need airflow to cool properly.

Since the higher performance intercoolers sit in front of the radiator another option would be to make a custom radiator that is wider and takes up some of the "left over" intercooler space because the high performance intercoolers only need room for the 2 pipes to run back to the stock position for the input and output hoses.

I suspect if you have increased boost pressure and fuel to obtain more performance, you have also increased the amount of heat being pumped into tour engine via the turbo making the engine run hotter in general. At speed you should get sufficient air flow without an electric fan, so if you are running on the hot side be careful. I've replaced perfectly good engines that were destroyed by "excessive over tuning". It's possible to add boost to a point where it creates enough blow by to push all the crankcase oil out of the sump, overheat the turbo to where the bearings fail and suck metal fragments, and so on.

Go luck and hope this helps.
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Old September 30th, 2013, 08:30 AM
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Very sage advice there Robert.

Having ridden in a defender with a EGT gauge, I was amazed how much the temperature varied depending on load.
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Old September 30th, 2013, 08:55 AM
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I have had a 200 tdi 110 sw with large lift, roof rack, and 33's, running a full width inter cooler. I installed all new VDO Vision gauges and that truck never ran more than half the gauge in normal driving and on an extended interstate grade heavily loaded would only go a needles width past half.
Do you have a fan shroud on your truck ?
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  #8  
Old September 30th, 2013, 12:06 PM
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Thanks all for the excellent advice. To answer a few of your questions, yes the viscous coupling is brand new and functioning perfectly. I haven't yet had time to install the EGT gauge (due to a dozen other more pressing problems) but plan to as soon as possible. I do have the fan shroud installed and stock cooling setup aside from the intercooler. I'm fairly certain that the gauge is functioning properly. I had the same injector pump settings prior to installing the intercooler and prior to replacing my fan clutch, and the gauge was usually pointing straight up or slightly cooler. The big change is that my Dormobile roof was installed right after I put on the intercooler, so there is a lot more weight now.

To be clear, the tuning I did was very minor: boost is stock, slight tweak of the smoke screw (1 turn), 1/4 turn on the spring preload, and 1/4 turn on the diaphragm. I also don't drive it like a race car. The larger intercooler was mostly to satisfy my need to overdo things.
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Old September 30th, 2013, 09:54 PM
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Hudson:
I am wondering if there is a way to reset the changes you made to get you back to the same baseline you had before you made any changes and determine which change or changes caused the higher temperature readings...

These would be engine only... a little more weight or drag will make little difference in the overall cooling.
Here's a few questions for you:
1. When you removed the stock intercooler from the frame, did you remove the radiator and or disturb the radiator hoses?
2. Is it possible that the cooling system is not completely full of coolant. It's possible to drain the fluid and fill up the overflow tank and leave very large air gaps in the cooling system that can only be purged when the thermostat opens and the radiator filler plug is off and being filled up.

I can't see additional fueling doing much more than adding some smoke and if unburnt would not effect temperature except to have a slight cooling effect (at least that's what happened when our son added too much fuel to his engine when adjusting the IP)... am no expert here so just thinking out loud to try and help you. Anyone have thought or a different opinion on this?

If your radiator is in good condition and cooling system full, I would then start working backwards one change at a time until the engine is back to the way it was before you made changes.
That is swap the new intercooler for the old one and see what happens. If there is no change then back out the pump adjustments and see if the running temp comes down at or near where it use to be.

There has to be sound answer(s) to this issue in the way of an exact science, so to speak.

Also would be interesting in seeing pictures of your Dormo roof top and any camping changes you made.
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  #10  
Old September 30th, 2013, 11:47 PM
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rdavis: I was just doing some reading about air in the cooling system and plan to investigate further. The local shop was supposed to have checked this when I last had the truck in, but I'm rapidly losing trust in them. I'll certainly check this along with a few other things (head gasket leak, failing water pump, failing radiator). The intercooler install was a royal pain and not quickly reversible, but I'm not convinced that it's the culprit since the truck ran cool with the small intercooler and increased tuning. So far, every consumable part on the vehicle seems to be failing simultaneously so I wouldn't be surprised if any of the parts of the cooling system that I haven't replaced just happened to fail at the exact time I installed the intercooler.
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Old October 1st, 2013, 12:15 AM
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If you have the stock shroud and removed the stock intercooler, there will be a huge bypass path around the radiator.
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Old October 1st, 2013, 12:19 AM
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The replacement intercooler fills the full width of the grille opening, so there's no area where outside air isn't contacting something. My setup is very similar to the one here: http://www.landroverweb.com/landrove...into-a-200tdi/
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Old October 1st, 2013, 12:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson View Post
The replacement intercooler fills the full width of the grille opening, so there's no area where outside air isn't contacting something. My setup is very similar to the one here: http://www.landroverweb.com/landrove...into-a-200tdi/
Hudson:
The article made no mention of removing the radiator, which by the looks of things was not necessary... the last paragraph mentioned overheating, but it was in 2nd on an uphill climb.

Check with the shop and let us know if the radiator was removed.
What condition is it in.

Again Dormo mod pictures are welcome, probably best in another post on another thread, but as a lower priority for you is easily understood.
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UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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Old October 1st, 2013, 01:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson View Post
The replacement intercooler fills the full width of the grille opening, so there's no area where outside air isn't contacting something. My setup is very similar to the one here: http://www.landroverweb.com/landrove...into-a-200tdi/
Yes, but you are not forcing all the air through the radiator as it is narrower than the intercooler. You need the shroud fairly tightly sealed to the radiator to force the air flow. The link you showed is a horrible job as the shroud is useless after the change.

Despite the viscous unit being new....have you checked it. If hot and you can stop it, it is not working.
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Old October 1st, 2013, 02:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
If you have the stock shroud and removed the stock intercooler, there will be a huge bypass path around the radiator.
That needs to be closed off to force the air through the radiator.

Let's see an actual pic of your set up. Front and rear please
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Old October 1st, 2013, 04:15 AM
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I have an electric fan. Its shroud is sealed to the body of the radiator. The stock system does this fairly well.
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Old October 1st, 2013, 08:34 AM
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I guess one should never assume that just because something was done by a shop it was done correctly. There should be a block of some sort where the old intercooler was that forces the air being pulled by the fan through the radiator. If not of course the vacuum created will pull on the path of least resistance. If there is nothing tightly fitted into the old intercooler hole to force air to pull through the radiator hell yeah it will over heat around town.
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Old October 1st, 2013, 12:33 PM
Hudson
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rdavis: I must have goofed when writing about the intercooler install. I did the install myself and indeed the radiator did not have to be removed. It is certainly suspect as it looks haggard, so I'm planning to have it pressure tested (or buy a kit and test it) and check for cool spots with my IR temp gun. I'll certainly try to get a Dormobile thread going once the cooling situation is resolved.

red90: The viscous unit was the first thing I checked when I got home from the shop and it would have shredded the newspaper if I had left it in there It's definitely doing its job.
I've attached a pic of the intercooler towards the end of my install. I tried to take a few more photos this morning, but with everything back in place, it's hard to see anything useful. The fan shroud is mounted as stock.

Anyway, to test the theory of air blowing through the open space, I was thinking of placing something over that spot (between the grille and the intercooler) and driving around for a while. Do you guys have any other thoughts on tests or, if the test works, how to permanently divert air in that area to the radiator?
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  #19  
Old October 1st, 2013, 01:07 PM
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On testing viscous couplings, they are always locked up when they are cold, the fluid doesn't start working until its up to temperature. I thought mine was good because I couldn't stop the fan using the newspaper method with the engine cold. Eventually I ran out of culprits so I replaced it anyway. The difference was incredible, I could suddenly hear the fan and feel it pulling down the power on the engine a little bit when it was engaged. I don't think my fan was working for the entire 4 years I've been running the engine. Oops...
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Old October 1st, 2013, 01:54 PM
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That's very good advice that isn't usually mentioned in the standard "check viscous coupling with newspaper" blurb. When I tested mine, I had left the truck running after a 30 minute drive home from the shop, and the temp gauge was at its new high resting position, so the coupling is definitely functional.
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