Constant Audible / Ignition issue--AHHH! - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old April 20th, 2012, 09:42 PM
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Angry Constant Audible / Ignition issue--AHHH!

I go to shut it off and the key won't rotate to the "0" position. It stops at the "I" position. At "II" position a high pitched audible alarm is going off. wth?! Turn the key back to "I" and the alarm goes off but still cannot rotate it to "0".
  • The engine cranks.
  • I can even put it in gear and drive it FWD or REV (all the time the alarm going off).
  • The audible sounds like the one that sounds when you enter neutral with the difflock but the difflock is engaged.
  • I made sure the shifter was pushed all the way up when jiggling the key.
  • I also turned the wheel back and forth to get the wheel to lock and let me rotate the key the rest of the way to "0".
Not letting me do it. So it is sitting in my driveway with the key in the ignition in the "I" position.

Can water be a factor??? Just prior to this whole matter, I had been hosing the engine compartment in the never-ending struggle to identify the source of footwell leaks.

Its a 1997 NAS D-90 SW.
Any
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  #2  
Old April 20th, 2012, 10:12 PM
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Jason England
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Ignition switch at the back is broken. $30 part from autozone. Nothing to do with water.
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  #3  
Old April 20th, 2012, 10:24 PM
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Jason Lavender
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I just ordered 2 from partsgeek....one to replace and a spare to throw in my parts bin:
http://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/199...on_switch.html
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  #4  
Old April 21st, 2012, 12:07 PM
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Will Do

Thanks a lot for the quick replies. I ordered the ignition switch today. Stay tuned.
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Old April 21st, 2012, 12:13 PM
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You'll need an eyeglasses screw driver and remember that there are two screws holding it in (one facing you, one not), once you get your instrument panel unscrewed and out of the way. Remember to reach back there and pinch&pull the speedo cable out before pulling on the instrument panel too hard. Search around a bit on here if you need pics.
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  #6  
Old April 25th, 2012, 11:02 PM
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Ok guys, I changed out the ignition switch but no dice. The loud audible continues and the key still won't rotate to "0". While I had the ignition switch out I attempted to turn the key to "0" and remove it but it wouldn't rotate all the way. Any other ideas? I was thinking of taking out the switch and messing around with the lock some more. Do you think that is a waste?

I was thinking maybe the lock is broke but that still doesn't explain that damn audible that stays on even after the engine is running.

I am up for any suggestions.
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  #7  
Old April 26th, 2012, 12:18 AM
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Lightbulb Ignition Lock wires???

The ignition lock has some wires that come out of the topside of the lock (as pictured). Could they be the issue? Perhaps they are shorted? What do those wires sense/control?

I looked online to see how difficult it would be to purchase one (just in case) and it appears they are a rare commodity for a NAS. Figures.
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  #8  
Old April 26th, 2012, 12:46 AM
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Ian Gregory
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Thatís probably your problem. Because the 97 is an auto it has a 'feature(?)' that stops you turning the key to position 0 and/or removing it unless the vehicle is in park. If you are not getting that signal then your ignition lock is preventing you from going to 0 and removing the key.

There are 3 sensors all tied in to the Auto part of the truck somewhat. 2 on the shifter and 1 on the trans selector shaft.

I would have to bury my head in the circuit diags to confirm exactly which does what again. That said I want to say that the park sense is one of the micro switches in the shifter assembly. I know the other is neutral sense for the T-Case solenoid. But that is off the top of my head and my exceedingly shaky memory....

Get hold of a copy of the NAS wiring diags and you should be able to trace it out back from the ignition switch. Find out which/where the park sense switch is and go back from there.

HTH

Ian
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  #9  
Old April 26th, 2012, 04:28 AM
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Ok, had some time to go back and check the diagrams and it looks like I was right (mostly). 1 of the switches you need to check is one of the ones in the shifter assembly. Make sure that is connected.

There are 2 switches in there. 1 is used for the ignition key, the other is used for the shift interlock that stops you changing out of park unless your foot is on the brake. They are both connected via a plug at the back of the shifter assembly under the center console.

The other one is on the trans and is the switch that also controls the reverse light and starter lockout. You can see it if you look up at the side of the trans on the driver’s side. It’s next to the selector shaft where the shifter cable connects to the trans up near the front of the box just above the fluid pan. The connector for this one is a 5 pin, black, round plug that should be down behind the engine on the bell housing near the driver’s side.

After that you're tracing circuits and wires and fuses I am afraid.

Have attached the relevant sections from the ETM for you in case you don’t have them. They explain the theory of operation and also show the circuit diags.

HTH

Ian

Edit - After re-reading your initial post, you may well have got water in the round switch behind the engine or unconnected/shorted it with the pressure washer. May want to check this one 1st. Sorry but its not fun to get at.

Attached crappy pic is the switch and connector you're looking for in the engine bay.
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File Type: pdf 97 D90 Ignition Interlock.pdf (117.2 KB, 283 views)
File Type: pdf 97 D90 Ign Interlock Circuit Diag.pdf (61.7 KB, 51 views)
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  #10  
Old April 27th, 2012, 06:44 PM
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Getting there...Update

Ian, you have me on the right track. The trans switch next to the trans housing looks/tests good so we can rule that out. My parking switch clicks and allows me to put it in gear so that is working. That damn noise!

I disconnected the "key in sensor" wire (Purple) and the key was able to move to zero and come out. It also caused the intermitten "open door alarm" to stop. Not sure if that is a clue. While this was good news to get the key out, the audible alarm continues. I was able to start the engine with the "key in sensor" wire pulled apart and still that alarm. The purple wire to the sensor is getting juice on both sides of the clips and I tested the brown and the white wires soldered to the top of the key lock housing and there was juice flowing from both of them too. When I reconnect the wires, the problem with the key comes right back.

The "key interlock solenoid" appears to be getting juice. There is a clip with Yellow/Black & Red/Black wires and they were good. Do you think the solenoid would cause this problem?


I will attack those plugs under the console later tonight when I get home tonight. I will keep you updated.
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  #11  
Old April 27th, 2012, 07:21 PM
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If you can get it out of park and you are hearing the solenoid click then itís an odds on bet the switches (1 of them anyway) on the shifter are working. If you have tested the connector at the side of the trans then you are out of switches to play with.

The lock should be energized if the key is in and the truck is not sensing that the trans is in park. So it sounds like the lock at least is doing its thing correctly (thatís expensive so add a sigh of relief there).

Seems like only a couple of options left. You have juice at the lock so itís not likely to be a fuse or between the power source and the lock. Its letting you get out of park so itís not likely to be the shifter switches (there are 2 micro switches in there but they both use the same connector). That leaves wiring or a bad switch/bad connection on the trans switch. How did you test it? I would put a meter on the plug coming from the switch and have somebody move the shifter. You should see continuity between the pins in Park, Reverse and Neutral. If you do then the switch is good. If no water is in there when you disconnect it then all thatís left is the wiring. Looking for chafes or cracks in the insulation or broken wires, etc. You could throw a meter on the plug from the shifter switches and make sure that both of them are working. You know one of them is but I guess there is a chance the other may be broken.

Do your reverse lights work? Can you shift the t-case between high and low when in park and neutral but not anything else? Those are the other 2 functions of the trans switch. If both of those are working then itís unlikely the other is bad at the switch itself.

Only other thing I can think of is that the truck is not actually going into park properly. Why it would suddenly do that is odd but itís possible I guess. Maybe some dislodged dirt or something is gumming up the shifter arm on the side of the trans? Long shot though.

Edit - Pin Outs for the 2 plugs attached.
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File Type: pdf Shifter Plug Pin Outs.pdf (147.6 KB, 46 views)
File Type: pdf Trans Plug Pin Outs.pdf (150.9 KB, 35 views)
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  #12  
Old April 27th, 2012, 08:26 PM
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Thumbs up Bingo!

Two things happened. First, while placing the small screw into the back part of the ignition switch (in my haste I forgot to put it in) it fell behind the dash. As I stick by needle nose pliers in to snatch it up, I accidentally rubbed the pliers against the open connection where the "key in sensor" wires and "key interlock solenoid" wires all connect. The wires were exposed since I unwrapped the tape around the junction. Fearing that I exacerbated by electrical issues, I turned the engine on and turned it off...and the key turned to Zero and came right out! The purple "key in sensor" wires were connected too! But the alarm continued on.

As I progressed through your series of suggestions, I finally arrived at shifting the t-case between high and low when in park and neutral... I put it in neutral let it roll back a few feet and pushed the shifter to H. The sound went off! I guess I had the shifter in a place where I could drive it but it was still thinking it was in neutral. Once I got it out of that no man's land, the audible went silent.

A hard lesson learned about making sure the diff shifter is all the way into its position. I must say, I would have been floundering without your help. Many thanks! I have definitely become more familiar with my electrical system and what is behind that dash.

Until the next problem... Take care!

Mike
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  #13  
Old April 27th, 2012, 08:56 PM
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Ian Gregory
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Glad to hear you got to the bottom of it and without a nasty parts bill as well!! Happy to have helped (indirectly at least).

Ian
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  #14  
Old April 27th, 2012, 09:54 PM
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I often had a hard time getting mine far enough into high to stop the nasty alarm too. Last summer, I finally removed the shifter boot here at home and discovered that the linkage arm (bent metal) was about ready to break. The linkage piece is made in a funky way, very weak. Priced one from my local LR dealer, $34 and they'd have to order it. Welded it up good myself. IF it would have broke on the trail, and in a tight spot, I'd have had a heap of trouble as it can be touchy to get into place (gear) anyway. Would of had to search out the problem and manipulate it with my fingers in an awkward and tight location. May want to check yours out if it's been giving you trouble, thy're built extremely weak.
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  #15  
Old April 30th, 2012, 11:20 AM
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Thanks for the suggestion

Since I am pulling the interior apart now, I will take your advice and check out the linkage.

------ Follow up post added April 30th, 2012 11:30 AM ------

I have a new issue: Rear wiper motor is not working and the rear washer jet is not spitting out water. As far as the motor goes, it's getting current from the green wire. The green wire is in the clip that attached to the rear motor. Regardless of whether I push the rear wiper motor button on the dash, the green wire has power. Is this right?There are two more wires in that clip that attaches to the motor and both are not showing any current whether I push the rear wiper button or not.

The rear jet above the rear SW door: When I push the rear wash button, I hear the motor pushing the fluid but nothing is coming out. I checked the pin holes and cleaned them out but nothing. I read that the hose can be kinked but I cannot locate where that hose is. I realize it travels under the headlining above the rear door then where does it go? Any ideas on where I should look to see the hose? I am hoping I can see if fluid is in the lines and trace the problem to the source.
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