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  #1  
Old November 25th, 2005, 05:59 PM
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Condensation in gas tank

Don't have my shop manual handy but isn't there something attached to the gas tank mounted in the rear passenger side wheel well that is supposed to prevent condensation in the tank?

I was having lots of problems with intermittent hesitation until I put in some gas line dryer. Then the truck ran like new for a few weeks and then the weather dropped about 15 degrees overnight and the next time I tried driving it the hesitation problem was back. Another bottle of gas dryer, fuel injector cleaner, and a fill-up and the next day the problem vanished.
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  #2  
Old November 25th, 2005, 07:48 PM
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I don't know if the v8's have a water catcher but usually gas engines don't have water problems. I'd run some fuel dryer through it then keep the tank more full during cold nights.

Have you changed the fuel filter latley??
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Old November 25th, 2005, 11:37 PM
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That thing in the rear sidewell is I think the charcole canister thingy (tecnical term ) and it is there to for catching fuel vapors and unburtn fuel or stuff like that. I don't think there is anything to stop water. Maybe your gas cap isn't sealing well and it's letting rain water in?
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Old November 26th, 2005, 12:57 AM
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To spefically elaborate more on how thats not a water separator: the thing in the wheel well is actually a stupid evaporative recovery chamber that has a vacuum feed to the charcoal canister mounted underneath the front wing behind the power steering resevoir. It looks technical just sitting there but is actually a stupid blow-molded piece of plastic. I hate it. For some reasons I have strong feelings about it. Maybe I'm insane.
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Old November 26th, 2005, 01:54 AM
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No Jim I hate it too! I think it is the root of all evil! But I have been accused of being crazy myself. Someone on this very forum tried to have me put away!
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Old November 26th, 2005, 08:55 AM
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Well I was parked under cover so I don't think it's a leaking gas cap. And my fuel filter has been changed within the last two years. Maybe I'll just change it and see what happens.

I was hoping that stupid plastic thing was my problem so I could replace it and be done with it. Intermittent problems really suck! Especially since I don't drive the truck everyday.

It will be running like new and then it will start lose power or idle rough, I smell fuel if I try to keep it running , it stalls , restarts, continues to run rough and blow black smoke as I rev the engine, then the smokes stops and the engine continues to run smooth as new...until the next time it happens.

I put a bottle of water remover in a few weeks ago and haven't had a problem until now. I probably drove it 4-5 times without any problems. I did the same after the problem arose again and the next day I didn't have any problems. That led me to believe maybe it's a condensation issue.

I live in Miami Beach so the temp dropped from 80 to 65, not cold at all, just a big change from the previous day I had driven the truck.
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  #7  
Old November 26th, 2005, 09:57 AM
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That little blown plastic thing cost something like 250 or 300 bucks.

There is a reason to hate it.
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  #8  
Old November 26th, 2005, 10:59 AM
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You probly got some bad gas. That never happens in sunny FLA. In the event you have a large amount of water keep adding fuel dryer or Acetone. You could also drain your tank & then add some Acetone. Acetone eats water.
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Old November 26th, 2005, 11:31 AM
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Well the problem doesn't sound like water in the tank anymore. The smell of gas and black smoke indicate running way too rich. Any chance that one of the connectors on something electrical is comming loose? Do you notice that it happens ata certin temp?
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Old November 26th, 2005, 12:12 PM
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It happens right after starting up (sometimes) and after getting up to temp (sometimes), so no not at any specific temp. The black smoke & fuel smell only last a few minutes and then it goes back to running normally.

I've been thinking it might be an electric sensor but I was hoping it was just bad gas. I guess I just have to go through the entire system and test every sensor.

I have about 87k on the truck now so I'm thinking the o2 sensors might be the culprit. The cats need replacing around 100k anyway right? Then the MAF probably needs cleaning because I believe the K&N air filter was over oiled at one time. I pulled the fuel relays and made sure they were in tight. I've cleaned the stepper when I first had the stalling problem this past summer. But that was without the fuel smell and black smoke.

This is getting really frustrating since it runs great for long periods of time and then just starts acting up at random times.
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  #11  
Old November 26th, 2005, 12:21 PM
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lol, well at least it runs good for long periods and bad for short ones. Mine will sometimes do the opposite!

Cats normally go someplace between 80 and 120k so you are right in the ball park. Good idea to test stuff rather then just replace it as that can get costly.

Most likly you have seen this but it is helpful!

http://www.rangie.com/articles_topic...at=6&subCat=26
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Old November 26th, 2005, 12:42 PM
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I think there might be some pages like that in the D90 manual I have, but that is a handy link anyway, thanks. I definitely don't want to start replacing stuff that doesn't need replacing. I guess it would be a good learing exercise to go through every sensor and check if it is operating as expected. Sounds a bit tedious but if I find the culprit it will definitely be worth it.

Aren't sensor failures supposed to throw codes to the ECU? I've never seen a code on the display.
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Old November 26th, 2005, 12:56 PM
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Does the 3.9 have a cold-start valve? Some EFI vehicle have them to enrich the mixture on start up - if they stick open or go bad they can cause all kinds of havoc. Usually a cheap-o fix.

Oh, and another reason to hate the little plastic thing is that the hoses get brittle and start leaking fuel all over your rear end (I mean truck's rear end).
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Old February 1st, 2006, 08:06 PM
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Problem solved, fuel pump relay.
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  #15  
Old February 1st, 2006, 09:52 PM
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Antonios,
I know we chased this problem for some time and without satisfactory results. It never really screwed up enough for us. I wonder if it was a poor connection at the relay or the relay itself. (We've fixed many an air bag fault by disconnecting a reconnecting the gold plated connectors to the air bags.) Either way, I glad you found it. I'm leaving Treasured to start my own Rover-only shop in PA. If you find your way near Hershey Park, give me a call!
Trevor
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Old February 1st, 2006, 10:09 PM
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Trevor, where in PA are you opening up the shop? I may just be interested in tossing a resume out to you.

-Hans
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Old February 2nd, 2006, 05:29 PM
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I spoke too soon. After the switch I test drove it for over 1 hour without any sign, then today it happened a couple of times during a series of short drives. The idle either drops to 200-300 and runs rough or it just dies. When it dies, or I shut it off, it starts right back up and runs fine as long as I wait for the fuel pump relay to kick out before trying to restart.

Also, I've been smelling gas fumes coming from the tank area after driving the last few times.

trevor, good to hear from you. Any ideas on what I should check next?
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Old February 4th, 2006, 10:47 AM
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I'd like to drive it with a fuel pressure gauge in-line to watch fuel pressure. The v-belt engines do not have a service port on the fuel rail, so I've fabbed an in-line adaptor out of old fuel rail parts. Got anybody down there to help with that?

Hans, I'm renovating a barn on our our little farmette to work on mostly Rover (I'll probably work on anything to get the cash flow going!). It's going to be a part time thing with unconventional hours so that I can take care of the kids first. Were calling it Roverlab as a play on words for the dog and the vehicle. It'll be awhile before I need long term help, but thanks for the thought!
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Old February 4th, 2006, 12:08 PM
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I know of one guy who has a shop selling accesories and he offered to help me diagnose the problem.

So if the pressure drops when the problem occurs then it would either be the fuel pressure regulator or the fuel pump, right? How would I tell which is causing the pressure drop?

I'm thinking that since the truck won't restart without shutting off the ignition, that it must be something electrical.
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Old February 4th, 2006, 11:51 PM
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Actually, it will NEVER restart without shutting it off due to the switch design, it's made to do that so you can't kick in the starter if the engine is already running, mine won't even let me turn the key unless I turn it all the way off. Can be embarrasing if you stall at a red light and forget that little fact. Kinda like how you can't lock a door on a SW if it's open, I don't think it's possible to lock your keys in the truck.

-hans
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