Clutch issue? Help with diagnosis..... - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old December 16th, 2005, 07:45 PM
Hans's Avatar
Hans
Status: Offline
Hans Haase
The D-90.com Lab Rat
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,381
Clutch issue? Help with diagnosis.....

Ok guys, I THINK I finally found my tranny issue for sure, looking for second opinions before I drop it down to confirm. Most of the other noises I've been able to diagnose and get rid of them in a variety of other places with only minor work.

Getting a popping noise occasionally, as well as a squeaking. They are definitely related, sometimes after it pops, the squeak goes away. Then it pops again before the squeaks start. Happens in all gears, squeaks either when getting moving from a stop or when decelerating. Pushing in the clutch makes the squeak go away instantly, even if I'm going the same speed. I'm also getting what I think is a driveline vibration at all speeds and in all gears.

I'm thinking either the throwout bearing on the clutch (most likely) or the input bearing on the tranny (less likely). We're at almost 95k miles here and I think it's still the original clutch.

Agree/Disagree?

-Hans
__________________
My oil line fix

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
My 100k stopped odometer fix

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Brace for impact, I'm in a "modifying mood". Massive thread count inbound.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old December 16th, 2005, 10:29 PM
Mike Hippert's Avatar
Mike Hippert
Status: Offline
D-90Slut/Stalker,SNLPres
94 D-90 Grinding Rover
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Manchester NH USA
Posts: 4,789
Hmm, well normally the throw out bearing will make noise when the clutch is disengaged (pushed in). The throw out bearing is also very lite and I don't think it could cause any type of vibration. I replaced my clutch when I did the engine swap, it was at 110-120k and it really didn't look that bad, but a couple of the springs broke so it needed to be replaced.

Have you driven it after removing a drive shaft to bake sure it is nothing else after the T-case? Can you get it make noise with the t-case in neutral at all?

Maybe something in the bell housing broke? Like mine a spring could have broke and is getting caught on something? Have you pulled the inspection plate on the bell housing to see if anything falls out? You can't get much a view once you remove it but it's a start.
__________________
Don't forget to
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
first then ask questions later! The loose nut behind the wheel
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old December 17th, 2005, 01:05 AM
Hans's Avatar
Hans
Status: Offline
Hans Haase
The D-90.com Lab Rat
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,381
I haven't pulled the bellhousing yet, I've been eliminating other options as I go along such as inspecting the rotors and CV joints. My other possible culprit is the parking brake drum which has given me issues in the past, but the noise sounds more to be from the bellhousing area. If it's just a broken spring that falls out, I'd be a happy man! That would mean I can wait until warm weather.

I haven't tried the neutral transfer case thing yet, good idea actually. That would eliminate the brake drum and axles.

Which springs had broken in yours? The coil springs or the fingers?

-Hans

Follow-up Post:

Add-on here. Driving home from work tonight the vibrations got VERY bad. I even pulled over twice to check that my lug nuts were on tight and I wasn't dragging anything. Couldn't go over 50mph without worrying about being able to drive safely. Looks like I need to double check the driveshafts too.

-Hans
__________________
My oil line fix

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
My 100k stopped odometer fix

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Brace for impact, I'm in a "modifying mood". Massive thread count inbound.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old December 17th, 2005, 04:08 AM
ne4x4's Avatar
ne4x4
Status: Offline
Ian McCormack
1984 Landrover 90
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Durham, UK
Posts: 98
If your getting vibration like that check the propshaft UJs, the sliding joint on the propshaft and the diferential pinion bearing, it has to be one of those
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old December 17th, 2005, 10:13 AM
BillyT
Status: Offline
Billy Tesauro
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2
Hans,
Call if you need a hand with anything. I would offer the shop at work, but I don
t think you will make it in with your rack. I got my Badger top and it lokks great.BillyT
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old December 17th, 2005, 10:31 AM
TDI Guy's Avatar
TDI Guy
Status: Offline
Randy
2015 LR4
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NJ
Posts: 4,573
Registry
I would go under and check all the u joints like stated... One might have grenaded.. That would be an easy fix too
__________________
Legend in My Own Mind.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old December 17th, 2005, 12:53 PM
Hans's Avatar
Hans
Status: Offline
Hans Haase
The D-90.com Lab Rat
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,381
Randy: Looks like you nailed it on the head. Rear U-joint at the axle is a bit floppy on me. Checked it 3 times last week, only found it after I unbolted the front side of that shaft to start checking the drum brake housing.

Of course with my luck, the last two bolts are being a serious pain in the butt to get off, gotta love LR techs who put too much loc-tite on top of the lock washers.

-Hans
__________________
My oil line fix

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
My 100k stopped odometer fix

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Brace for impact, I'm in a "modifying mood". Massive thread count inbound.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old December 17th, 2005, 03:27 PM
Mike Hippert's Avatar
Mike Hippert
Status: Offline
D-90Slut/Stalker,SNLPres
94 D-90 Grinding Rover
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Manchester NH USA
Posts: 4,789
Hans for next time, when it starts vibrating a bit and you have been driving for a while pull over and feel the U-joints on the driveshafts, if anyof them are warmer then the others then it is most likly bad. At times I ahve had vibs from UJs and they all felt fine and looked good but when I pulled the drivesafts it was very apparent which one was bad!

If it were me, I would replace both joints, they are cheap and it's easy while you have it out. If the bad bolt are both on the same end slide the other end free, you may need to pry it a little, then you can push the driveshaft around a bit so you can get a socket on the bolt. If on the diff end I use a box wrench on the nut and use the A frame to "hold" it to keep it from spinning then I can use both hands one the nut.

And there is good reason for all that loctite on the bolt! I check mine a few times after I put the DS back on, those nuts like to ratle loose! I use both split washers and locktite.

PS if you break any bolts you can replace them with standard 3/8ths bolts (9/16ths head size) fine thread grade 8 bolts. They are the same size head as the ones on there with the same size shaft and all. I have had to replace a few of mine, then I replaced all of mine in the diff ends and they seem to hold up allot better!
__________________
Don't forget to
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
first then ask questions later! The loose nut behind the wheel
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old December 17th, 2005, 07:39 PM
Hans's Avatar
Hans
Status: Offline
Hans Haase
The D-90.com Lab Rat
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,381
It seems that you have to make sure to take all the load off the driveshaft to find bad U-joints on these things, I'm still adapting to the way the parking brake works. Once I chocked the wheel, put the transfer case in neutral and unlocked the parking brake, it was bluntly obvious. Not as easy as 'normal' parking brake setups where they unload the driveshafts by locking the wheels.

Anyways, I got the old joints out after a while, definitely going to replace both of them while they are out. The bad one had two cups shattered at the lips, the insides were badly rusted.... another case of previous owner non-maintenance, the old grease was just too hardened and I guess nothing ever got in there whenever I tried to re-grease the thing. Took a while to get that one out of the yolks too. But it seems the scraping noise is coming from the parking brake housing, tomorrow that comes apart for a cleaning job.

I'm going to replace all the rear flange bolts with stainless while they are out. But wouldn't grade 5 actually be better in this case? It was always my understanding that grade 8 had better stretch strength, but grade 5's were better for shearing and torsional loads.

-Hans
__________________
My oil line fix

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
My 100k stopped odometer fix

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Brace for impact, I'm in a "modifying mood". Massive thread count inbound.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old December 17th, 2005, 10:26 PM
JimC's Avatar
JimC
Status: Offline
Jim Cheney
NAS 110 #145
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Stuttgart, Germany
Posts: 7,154
Registry
I would not use SS in my driveline - There is some graded stainless out there but it costs enough that you may as well use titanium. Totally Stainless has graded stainless in fractional only. Racebolts.com has a decent selection of metric titanium.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old December 17th, 2005, 11:04 PM
Hans's Avatar
Hans
Status: Offline
Hans Haase
The D-90.com Lab Rat
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,381
Jim, first off...... thanks for the links, some DAMN cool stuff there on Racebolts!
I'll have to look at the ratings on the titanium, and the price of course. Function first, but always room to put some pleasant looking stuff in too.

Anyways, you really need to see the rust issues in this region to fully appreciate it, if it didn't make wrenching so difficult, it would be hilarious. I live on an island made up of almost entirely of ocean sand, with a very high salt content. Then toss in the additional salt on the roads all winter long, combined with a constant high humidity in the summer. When I say things rust out here, I mean they RUST. On my CJ-7, I've had to replace a good 80% or more of the bolts that I've had to remove because they were just so badly corroded. I've also had to junk more than once car already because the frame rotted through completely.

Any bolts in the underside of a vehicle here have to be anti-siezed or stainless, or you're going to get to know the local machinists VERY intimately. You wouldn't believe how many wheel studs, exhaust manfiold bolts and caliper sliders I've had to replace over the years because of corrosion issues. (3 out of 5 studs on one wheel once when getting new tires). Though you are correct, you need to get the good stuff. In this case because of the potential vibration issues I really can't anti-sieze them, so I'm stuck going stainless.

-Hans
__________________
My oil line fix

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
My 100k stopped odometer fix

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Brace for impact, I'm in a "modifying mood". Massive thread count inbound.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old December 17th, 2005, 11:33 PM
JimC's Avatar
JimC
Status: Offline
Jim Cheney
NAS 110 #145
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Stuttgart, Germany
Posts: 7,154
Registry
I know what you mean , I had to cut off the driveshaft bolts even in SC. Now my Tdicontinuously rustproofs the driveline with diesel

You could just waxoyl the bolts once installed.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old December 17th, 2005, 11:45 PM
Hans's Avatar
Hans
Status: Offline
Hans Haase
The D-90.com Lab Rat
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,381
True, true, hadn't thought about the waxoyl idea for that. I wasn't really going to bother with the stuff until I replace the skid plate in the spring. I wonder how well it would last, the rear pinion area gets all the road grime driven up into it more than most places.

I had to send my wife to get the hardware today, no time to go to both the hardware store and NAPA before I had to leave for work. I HOPE it came back with the right grade stamps on top, otherwise I'm stuck putting the old stuff back to get me by for a couple weeks until I have more time. Thankfully I didn't have to cut any of the bolts to get it apart.

-Hans
__________________
My oil line fix

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
My 100k stopped odometer fix

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Brace for impact, I'm in a "modifying mood". Massive thread count inbound.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old December 18th, 2005, 05:19 PM
Hans's Avatar
Hans
Status: Offline
Hans Haase
The D-90.com Lab Rat
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,381
All done. Couldn't source the graded stainless locally, so I ended up having to put the old bolts back in for now, since the hardware stores are all closed today. Springtime they get replaced with new.

But, all the funky noises are now gone, vibrations gone, most of the driveline slack is gone now too! I wish I had found this thing months ago, man there are a lot of quirks in the drivetrain that I need to figure out still.

-Hans
__________________
My oil line fix

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
My 100k stopped odometer fix

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Brace for impact, I'm in a "modifying mood". Massive thread count inbound.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions

Tags
clutch

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
clutch problem diagnosis help... bharris Defender Technical Discussions 18 November 14th, 2011 04:42 PM
screaming clutch jimmy salmon Defender Technical Discussions 5 November 24th, 2007 12:32 PM
D'Oh clutch slip mikeslandrover Misc. Chit-Chat 40 July 27th, 2005 03:50 AM
Clutch spring MOD--MUST HAVE evilfij Defender Technical Discussions 2 July 3rd, 2005 10:03 PM
90 v8 clutch problem robheath Defender Technical Discussions 0 August 19th, 2004 06:45 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:50 AM.


Copyright