Check My Dial Gauge Timing Method - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old July 27th, 2017, 12:55 PM
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Check My Dial Gauge Timing Method

I'm dealing with what appears to be a chronic timing issue on the 200Tdi.
I've pulled the pipes off the back of the pump, it's a Disco engine so no need for removing anything else. Flywheel is centered and locked, TDC via crankshaft marks and a 3/8 timing pin slides in the slot nicely. Inserted the pre-loaded dial gauge into the back of the pump and adjusted to zero for a base reference and then:

A) loosened three bolts around pump gear and removed them.
B) wrench on pump center nut and rotate counter-clockwise looking from front of engine(opposite the way it turns when running)
C) when it stops rotating with ease, re-zero gauge
D) Rotate pump clockwise to where pin fits back in--it reads 1.41mm
E) Remove pin, keep rotating till 1.6mm insert 11/32 pin and replace three bolts and tighten, watching gauge while doing so.

Does that sound correct?

Thanks for any input.
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  #2  
Old July 27th, 2017, 01:54 PM
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No, that is not correct.

You need to insert the dial gauge and rotate the crankshaft. Just before getting to TDC, you will see the dial gauge reach a mininimum point and stay there. That is the zero. Continue rotating the crankshaft to TDC. IMO, it is best to look up through the drain hole of the flywheel housing to see when the slot is centered. When at TDC, read the value and that is the lift. You can then adjust at the pump sprocket to get it where you want. Lastly rotate 2 turns of the crank again and verify it is correct.
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Old July 27th, 2017, 02:00 PM
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Ok, Thank You John, I'll go give that a whirl.
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  #4  
Old July 27th, 2017, 02:09 PM
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What you outlined sounds about right to me, roughly same method that LR Toolbox shows.

Set engine to TDC via flywheel, pin, timing cover.
Install dial gauge with some preload on it.
Remove 3 bolts and turn gear counter clockwise until it bottoms out OR rotate the gear clockwise until you get back to about where you started and find that same zero. Cool now you are all set.
Rotate gear CW until you can get the 3 bolt plate back on AND get the pin in. Gauge should be reading around 1.4ish
Now bring it up to 1.54mm (you might need to remove pin for this), and nip 3 bolts down.
Rotate engine twice and check values.


Johns method sounds good, I am just skeptical that you can really feel that the pump is at zero. There is a certain "feel" to it, once you try the LR Toolbox method you will know what I am talking about. LR Toolbox gets into this as well a bit when he keeps lifting up and letting it drop to find zero.


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Old July 27th, 2017, 03:16 PM
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Well, lift looks good using John's suggested method. 1.58mm at TDC via flywheel and crank mark.
11/32 or 8.73mm is the bit that loosely fits in the IP slot, 3/8 won't go.
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Old July 27th, 2017, 03:27 PM
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Thanks Adam. That vid made a few things clearer for me. The LR Toolbox library has been indispensable during the re-build process but his VE timing video left me with a a few questions.

This one cleared up a few:


And because many won't have the replacement copper washer for the back of the pump:
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Old July 27th, 2017, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GM13 View Post
Thanks Adam. That vid made a few things clearer for me. The LR Toolbox library has been indispensable during the re-build process but his VE timing video left me with a a few questions.

This one cleared up a few:
VIDEO

And because many won't have the replacement copper washer for the back of the pump:
VIDEO
Wow that top video you posted was very helpful indeed and reinforced John's method (surprise surprise). I am going to try to find some time this weekend to re-check mine using this method.

I also want to set mine back to dead stock as I have this new part on the way from Fourby.co.uk called a Boost Ring. The guy from Fourby told me to set the FIP timing to stock before installing this part as it affects the pump timing by itself

Boost Ring Kit -Boost Ring for 200Tdi & 300Tdi
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  #8  
Old July 30th, 2017, 11:30 AM
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I checked my timing the way Red90 and the video that was posted suggested. I had set my timing prior using the LR Toolbox method. Using the Red90 method I found it was overall easier then the LR toolbox method. Finding the 0 point was no different than the LR toolbox way.

My timing was dead on, no adjustments needed.
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  #9  
Old January 16th, 2018, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamSanta85 View Post
Wow that top video you posted was very helpful indeed and reinforced John's method (surprise surprise). I am going to try to find some time this weekend to re-check mine using this method.

I also want to set mine back to dead stock as I have this new part on the way from Fourby.co.uk called a Boost Ring. The guy from Fourby told me to set the FIP timing to stock before installing this part as it affects the pump timing by itself

Boost Ring Kit -Boost Ring for 200Tdi & 300Tdi
Did you ever install the boost ring?
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  #10  
Old January 16th, 2018, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
Did you ever install the boost ring?
No, it is sitting new in package still. Next to my boost pin which was in my old pump. Anyone want to try it? It def gives gains.

I got a new injection pump a few months back. I didn't want to mess with it at first, just to see what changes it made. The truck runs so good (for a 200) now that I don't really want to mess with it.

Stock turbo 15.5-16 psi, bigger intercooler, TF center muffler delete, high flow air filter, RDavis electric fuel pump, timing/valves set recently, injectors rebuilt last year. It will do 85 with basically no smoke anywhere in the powerband if I push it on the highway, target egt 1250. A "comfortable" 70-75 on the highway all day with surfboard + front runner rack.

I am going to keep it like this until I do the engine swap.
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  #11  
Old January 16th, 2018, 08:15 PM
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Certainly interested to see if it makes a difference with someone that has their pump timing accurately setup and has the fueling understood. I might trial one this summer, but would be nice to get a real review before wasting money.
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  #12  
Old January 16th, 2018, 08:19 PM
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I got you
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  #13  
Old January 17th, 2018, 08:49 AM
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Can anyone recommend a dial gauge kit for sale at Amazon, Autozone, Harbor Freight, Ebay, etc that works with the Bosche VE pumps? I gather they are supposed to be fairly universal but if anybody has experience with a kit they know works, I'd appreciate the direction. Thanks.
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  #14  
Old January 17th, 2018, 09:12 AM
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http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...w-36001-4.html

long story short:

Get the cheap adapter

https://www.amazon.com/BOSCH-INJECTI...ing+dial+gauge

get a cheap 8mm stem dial gauge. It must have an 8mm stem to use that adapter!!
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