Can't figure out this wheel wobble.... - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old June 20th, 2014, 10:21 PM
USLandy's Avatar
USLandy
Status: Offline
Andrew
defender 90
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: somewhere
Posts: 190
Can't figure out this wheel wobble....

So I cannot for the life of me seem to resolve the wheel wobble my D90 300tdi has... been working with a local defender guy too who has helped through the process but now I'm stumped.... Any help and ideas would be appreciated.

Had the death wobble and finally got around to replacing the king pin bearings and swivel balls as they were old and pitted, also the tie rod ends were replaced. The wobble felt as though it had gone away, but after a day or two I started to feel a slight wobble again, which was not as bad as before king pins were done, and at the same speed of 50-55mph. Called up the local defender expert (John Putins, awesome guy) and he came down and checked it out and felt as though the front axle felt sturdy so he recommended getting the wheels balanced. After that it felt like the slight wobble went away and all was good for a few short trips around town, then again I've been having some steering wobble right around 50-55mph again; however, I kind of get the feel that there is a bit more body movement than just steering wobble...

So my steering damper looks toast, ordered a new one and going to replace that shortly, but do people think that a bad damper could cause a harmonic wobble like a death wobble?? I'm also thinking possibly the front prop may be out, when I first moved to CO I brought the D90 in to get emissions done and the mechanic dropped the front prop and may not have put it back on correctly???

Totally getting lost on this one and I just want my 90 running well again....

thanks in advance!
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old June 20th, 2014, 10:42 PM
Ash's Avatar
Ash
Status: Online
Ash Heller
OM606 110 Frankenstein
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 665
Have you replaced the panhard rod bushings lately? They'll create slop in the steering system which can cause a shimmy like you're experiencing.

A steering damper really just masks the underlying issues in the system, but if yours appears worn out it couldn't hurt to replace.

-Ash
__________________
Geared Restoration Co.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

352-572-3236

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old June 20th, 2014, 10:50 PM
Jackie Treehorn's Avatar
Jackie Treehorn
Status: Offline
A
1985 (legitimately)
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,984
Registry
Are you running tubes in your rims?
Double check and be sure.
If so, I had one that simply would not balance no matter what we did. Removed tube in that tire/wheel and all was well.
Before there was a similar death wobble between 65-70
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #4  
Old June 20th, 2014, 11:05 PM
USLandy's Avatar
USLandy
Status: Offline
Andrew
defender 90
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: somewhere
Posts: 190
I replaced the panhard rod to a new terrafirma one about 5k miles ago and it came with new bushes installed. But possibly the wheel wobble from the bad king pin bearings may have prematurely damaged the bushings??? I'll get under the 90 in the morning and check them out, they were polybushes if my memory serves me well...

Also there are no tubes, and the guys at the local goodyear shop that did the balance said they all came out "spot on".

Thanks for the tips.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old June 20th, 2014, 11:10 PM
chris snell's Avatar
chris snell
Status: Offline
Chris Snell
87 Ex-MOD 110
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kansas
Posts: 2,439
Ditch the polybushes on everything except suspension.
__________________
1987 Ex-MOD 110 Tithonus LHD
2013 LR4


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
/
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
/
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
/
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
/
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old June 20th, 2014, 11:25 PM
USLandy's Avatar
USLandy
Status: Offline
Andrew
defender 90
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: somewhere
Posts: 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris snell View Post
Ditch the polybushes on everything except suspension.
reason??? I haven't looked too much into this so I'm interested if it has shown to be a benefit. But most of what I've seen in the bushing arguments seems to all be personal preference, and people arguing back and forth endlessly.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old June 20th, 2014, 11:55 PM
fishEH's Avatar
fishEH
Status: Offline
Brett Fritzler
94, 95, 96 D1's
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lake Villa, IL
Posts: 1,113
Quote:
Originally Posted by USLandy View Post
I replaced the panhard rod to a new terrafirma one about 5k miles ago and it came with new bushes installed. But possibly the wheel wobble from the bad king pin bearings may have prematurely damaged the bushings??? I'll get under the 90 in the morning and check them out, they were polybushes if my memory serves me well...

Also there are no tubes, and the guys at the local goodyear shop that did the balance said they all came out "spot on".

Thanks for the tips.
Here's an anecdote for ya. My buddy installed a brand new TF adjustable panhard rod with the supplied polys. It wouldn't pass inspection in St Louis. My RTE panhard has had some yellow poly bushing on the axle side since I got it used a few years ago. So IDK.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old June 20th, 2014, 11:59 PM
meatblanket's Avatar
meatblanket
Status: Offline
Mike Simpson
1955 86 1986 ExMOD 110
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Golden CO USA
Posts: 582
Registry
If you have checked out everything else and the steering damper is truly junk then replacing it may solve the issue. They dont typically wear out, but if all the oil escapes they will stop functioning as intended.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old June 21st, 2014, 09:07 AM
USLandy's Avatar
USLandy
Status: Offline
Andrew
defender 90
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: somewhere
Posts: 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by meatblanket View Post
If you have checked out everything else and the steering damper is truly junk then replacing it may solve the issue. They dont typically wear out, but if all the oil escapes they will stop functioning as intended.
Yea I removed the damper and spring, its the terrafirma RTC one, and there was little resistance when pushing back and forth... plus it was rather dirty from oil and dirt collecting on it, and there were no leaks directly above it so figured oil was from the damper.

------ Follow up post added June 21st, 2014 07:09 AM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by fishEH View Post
Here's an anecdote for ya. My buddy installed a brand new TF adjustable panhard rod with the supplied polys. It wouldn't pass inspection in St Louis. My RTE panhard has had some yellow poly bushing on the axle side since I got it used a few years ago. So IDK.
Hey Brett! Well maybe then I'll get some new bushes for it and switch those out too.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old June 28th, 2014, 01:36 PM
sonoronos's Avatar
sonoronos
Status: Offline
Ed
None
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 5,530
Registry
only one way for the front prop to go in. unless he separated the two halves then they are guaranteed to be in the proper phase.

------ Follow up post added June 28th, 2014 01:37 PM ------

my orange polybushes are fine. no problems after installing.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old June 28th, 2014, 08:05 PM
Capt Milks's Avatar
Capt Milks
Status: Offline
Mike
Defender V-8, Defender 2.25
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1,798
when you installed the new swivel balls did you set the pre-load?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old June 28th, 2014, 10:28 PM
USLandy's Avatar
USLandy
Status: Offline
Andrew
defender 90
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: somewhere
Posts: 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Milks View Post
when you installed the new swivel balls did you set the pre-load?
yup, 12-15 lbs... Still waiting on my new damper to get in to see if that makes the difference.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old June 29th, 2014, 01:49 AM
Nomar's Avatar
Nomar
Status: Offline
Jeff B
RR HNTR,RR LWB Tdi
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Central,Virginia
Posts: 4,290
Registry
Don't rely on a damper to mask wobble.
I dont even run a damper on my truck and I have no wobble issues.


.
__________________


Real Rovers have round headlights!
Rent my
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
!
Just a few miles from 4x4 access!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old June 29th, 2014, 07:29 AM
Capt Milks's Avatar
Capt Milks
Status: Offline
Mike
Defender V-8, Defender 2.25
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1,798
Something is loose so it may be time to double check everything. Start with the easiest and continue until you find it.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old June 29th, 2014, 07:37 AM
1of40's Avatar
1of40
Status: Offline
1of40
NAS 97SW & 83 One Ten Tdi
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Potomac Falls & Wintergreen, Virginia
Posts: 6,076
Registry
Bent wheel? Old tired tires?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old June 29th, 2014, 02:04 PM
USLandy's Avatar
USLandy
Status: Offline
Andrew
defender 90
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: somewhere
Posts: 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomar View Post
Don't rely on a damper to mask wobble.
I dont even run a damper on my truck and I have no wobble issues.


.
Yea I didn't think it could be a bad damper causing a harmonic wobble, though at least i'm replacing it. I'm going to replace the panhard rod bushings as I've been told that the terrafirma bushes it comes with are trash.

Then if that still hasn't solved it I'm wondering if it may be the front prop shaft, as I have lifted the truck and do hit the trail with it I am wondering maybe if this may cause premature failure of the u-joints, though I did replace them within under 1k miles. Maybe the angle is to great and I need a DC prop shaft, anyone use the Tom Woods ones?

------ Follow up post added June 29th, 2014 12:07 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post
I know you said they wer new , but double check the panhard bushings. Actually check all of the bushings. Also check the tie rod ends.

-Jeff
The tie rod ends were replace with the swivel balls, so I hope its not them... but I will be doing the panhard rod bushes, and checked the radius arm bushes and they all seem good.

------ Follow up post added June 29th, 2014 12:08 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1of40 View Post
Bent wheel? Old tired tires?
just had the wheels balanced, and the tires maybe have 4-5k miles on them
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old June 29th, 2014, 03:00 PM
Nomar's Avatar
Nomar
Status: Offline
Jeff B
RR HNTR,RR LWB Tdi
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Central,Virginia
Posts: 4,290
Registry
Panhard bushes can definitely contribute.

I would work through all the suspects with the steering damper removed, and only replace it when the wobble is resolved.


.
__________________


Real Rovers have round headlights!
Rent my
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
!
Just a few miles from 4x4 access!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old June 29th, 2014, 04:36 PM
USLandy's Avatar
USLandy
Status: Offline
Andrew
defender 90
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: somewhere
Posts: 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomar View Post
Panhard bushes can definitely contribute.

I would work through all the suspects with the steering damper removed, and only replace it when the wobble is resolved.


.
I removed the steering damper earlier last week and there was no resistance from pushing by hand, so that's why I'm replacing that right away. I will also do the panhard rod bushings at the same time.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old July 2nd, 2014, 03:55 PM
USLandy's Avatar
USLandy
Status: Offline
Andrew
defender 90
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: somewhere
Posts: 190
quick update, damper came in and I switched it out. Not much of a difference, as expected. Hopefully I'll get to doing the panhard rod bushings this weekend.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old July 2nd, 2014, 04:16 PM
CavemanDiesel's Avatar
CavemanDiesel
Status: Offline
Eric Smirh
1985 D90
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Vero Beach, Fl, USA
Posts: 803
Quote:
Originally Posted by USLandy View Post
quick update, damper came in and I switched it out. Not much of a difference, as expected. Hopefully I'll get to doing the panhard rod bushings this weekend.
I had a similar problem with my 90, since mine is very old I started replacing any part that looked old. I replaced the steering box, it was leaking, I replaced the springs, shocks, rotors, calipers, pads, I balanced and rotated the tires. New RTC steering damper. While most of these parts needed to be replaced none of them helped with the problem. With the help from people on the form I was told to set the pre tension on the swivel pins and replace the pan hard bushing, that did the trick, no more death wobble, good luck,
Oh, my steering feels 100% better and I learned a lot about the front end,
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Defender & Series Technical Discussions > Defender Technical Discussions

Tags
wheel

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Damn! Cannot figure out what is wrong with the lights! solihul Defender Technical Discussions 11 October 26th, 2017 07:04 PM
No Spark issue, can't for the life of me figure it out. Neil McCauley Defender Technical Discussions 43 June 4th, 2017 01:47 PM
Fundamentals - how to figure out plug order chuff Defender Technical Discussions 3 April 27th, 2007 12:49 PM
HELP! Hunting Idle, can't figure it out btate Defender Technical Discussions 9 September 12th, 2006 05:25 PM
Trying to figure out snorkel routing - any ideas? solihul Defender Technical Discussions 3 May 18th, 2006 10:57 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:39 PM.


Copyright