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  #21  
Old September 19th, 2013, 01:20 AM
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The 4bt has been successfully put in all sorts of land rovers.
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  #22  
Old September 19th, 2013, 02:23 AM
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Interesting it seems that the 4Bt and the OM617 are fairly similar in many ways but the Cummins create more torque. To throw it out there, how well does the Mercedes handle WVO, seems the Cummins is ok with it.

Quick breakdown on the OM 617 is rated at 125hp/140ft-lbs stock

29" long - some debate as to whether that includes fan
24" tall (26" by others, may be differences in oil pan or valve cover between years)
22" wide
244kg (563lbs) Long block weight




The 4BT 3.9 engine is rated at 120+ hp @ 2500 rpm with peak torque of 327 lb-ft @ 1700 rpm. The engine weighs 570 pounds (dry). The 4BT 3.9 engine dimensions are...:

Total height: 30.6 inches
Total length: 30.1 inches
Total width: 22.9 inches
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  #23  
Old September 19th, 2013, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbelshee View Post
I assume when you mention the LWB you are referring to something like a Series I II or IIa. I am not as much a fan of the looks of the L322, you are correct that going that route is much easier. To make the project simpler could one place the body of a 70ís or 80ís LWB onto a newer frame say the L322? Is there something that matches up well?
I'm not sure you're grasping how utilitarian a Defender is and how complex an L322 is.

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I canít tell if the comment about the truck leaking everywhere was serious or not. If true, what have people used to replace the door seals and keep the weather out?
This is serious.
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  #24  
Old September 19th, 2013, 09:06 AM
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Land Rover series and defenders are not waterproof ... they leak ... I have brand new doors, seals, the latest puma door bottom seals and all that works pretty well ... but when I open the door water falls from the roof drain channel vertically down the door and onto my speakers ... its a quirk of the design. To get round it pick another vehicle.
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  #25  
Old September 19th, 2013, 10:03 AM
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Sounds like the original poster has the skill set to build whatever he wants. I would steer you towards using defender components as the leaf sprung frame from a series isn't optimal for a nice ride in the finished product. The spartan interior in these trucks makes pretty much anything possible although most like the spartan original trappings. Best of luck to you and have fun with it.
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  #26  
Old September 19th, 2013, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbelshee View Post

Thank you Don for your well thought out reply and useful advice.

Surprisingly enough I was unaware of the Mercedes Diesel OM617 that is an interesting engine with 5 cylinders it seems unorthodox but the reliability of them appears to be exceptionally good. I mentioned the Cummins because that is what I am using in the truck I am building, and appreciate the better suggestion. Cummins are too big and heavy for this build. The only reason for wanting to do a motor swap is because I assume I will buy something that does not run and due to EPA requirements replacing with the 300TDI would make the truck illegal due to it now being a non-conforming engine. Leaving me to find another viable option that is already proven to be ok in the states.

I assume when you mention the LWB you are referring to something like a Series I II or IIa. I am not as much a fan of the looks of the L322, you are correct that going that route is much easier. To make the project simpler could one place the body of a 70ís or 80ís LWB onto a newer frame say the L322? Is there something that matches up well?

I canít tell if the comment about the truck leaking everywhere was serious or not. If true, what have people used to replace the door seals and keep the weather out?

It is true I am not ready to start this project Abu Buckwheat, that is why I am asking questions and trying to learn from people here. I am not sure what advice I have not been listening to, are you referring to the whale foreskin? Yes I did not take that advice and choose to not use that materialÖ I suppose you were offended at the word choice of ďcheapĒ? Well that was the second time to reply as the first draft was deleted before re-posting. In frustration I re-typedit complete with horrible typos, sorry for that guys! (I just figured out the issue, if you type in another program then copy and paste here it deletes many of the spaces)

I appreciate the suggestions on ways to accomplish my goals.
Sorry Ryan - I meant a Range Rover Classic LWB.

You mentioned Maybach interior and hauling clients around and moving the rear seat back and all day comfort in rough conditions. IMO, Land Rover built that vehicle already and badged it the Range Rover. My wife has a L322. I love driving that vehicle and it makes my 110 really look like the tractor it is.

Now if you said, I want something simple as f**k, clean interior but no frills, don't mind wind and motor noise, and want something I can drive trail all day and then camp at night then I'd say step right up and go for a Defender. I guess you could trick out a Defender interior but IMO the Defender is in it's best element when they are used in their simplest form.

Like I said, get a RRC LWB and if you put in that ultra-plush interior, a cool motor swap, and some exterior mods to fit the terrain you are driving you would have a very very cool classic rig that serves your needs.
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  #27  
Old September 19th, 2013, 10:21 AM
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We need Josh to find the picture of that 110 limo, the one with the rear seats pushed way back. The interior was so obnoxiously clad in leather and wood (granted, probably Maybach quality), only Leisure Suit Larry would appreciate it.
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  #28  
Old September 19th, 2013, 02:35 PM
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Thanks for the link, it looks like they did not use ANY sealant... part of the reason I like completing a project myself I can apply the proper sealant. I currently live in Oregon where it rains constantly so water mitigation is part of life here.

As many of you have mentioned this is a very utilitarian vehicle, possibly more of a pain than it is worth. Especially when these trucks fetch a premium, the way this would work is if I could pick up the truck for under $2500 and build from there but that is unreasonable after more research.

I appreciate your insights and assistance. I will continue to consider this project but for now I have addressed my primary concerns.
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  #29  
Old September 19th, 2013, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbelshee View Post
Especially when these trucks fetch a premium, the way this would work is if I could pick up the truck for under $2500 and build from there but that is unreasonable after more research.
You can't find a completely rusted out PoS for $2,500. I'd suggest searching the classifieds to see what kind of coin they go for in various conditions.
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  #30  
Old September 19th, 2013, 02:49 PM
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The cheapest 90 or 110 will be in the 5k range, 6k shipped to the west coast. That is a 1000ukp MOT failure rust bucket plus shipping costs to the US. I bought an 83 110 regular for 500ukp that turned out to be a lot better than I thought it would be (there were no pics on eBay.co.uk) and I was into it for nearly 5k by the time I got it registered in the US.
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  #31  
Old September 19th, 2013, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by FSU_Disco View Post
You can't find a completely rusted out PoS for $2,500. I'd suggest searching the classifieds to see what kind of coin they go for in various conditions.
That was my point it is unreasonable to assume that I could get anything inexpensive enough to make my project make sense.
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  #32  
Old September 19th, 2013, 03:49 PM
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Water entering the Defender really does become a way of life! I wouldn't do a high end interior in one...Maybe nice seats, and pretty utilitarian everywhere else. We have a nice NAS 110 that I constantly battle with on water entry! I've got it pretty good, except for the bulkhead area, and a lot of H2O comes into the front floor pans from there...I just pull the mats up and dry it as much as possible after wet driving...

We may get a 2dr military rig 110 some day and do a build on it...That's the route I'd take for the least expensive option. Lots of good advice on here, mixed w a bit of sarcasm
It'd be a lot of fun for you to build one...just don't plan on it being too cheap...The costs add up very quickly on these tractors!!
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  #33  
Old September 20th, 2013, 12:39 AM
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As for finished style I like the 5 door version and possibly something that I can run topless, so I am not sure if the 2dr would work for me.

In looking at other similarly simplistic exterior trucks I find the Hummer which I am not as much a fan of and seems to have a persona attached to it that I am not into. I will leave it at that in case some of you have them. They would suit my general needs but not exactly, they get horrible fuel economy and do not save me enough over the Defender to make sense. I also found the Jeep Commander which is newer already can be purchased fairly plush but again it is not quite right on the outside. My father in law had one and it drowned and died. I am not sure how, it was borrowed so the true story may never come to light. That makes me worry about the durability for the areas I will be going

For some strange reason I am just drawn to this rig, the exterior is great and the inside is simple and cavernous so I can do a lot with it. I suppose I should drive one :-) Yeah that is right I am a total NOOB.

Anyone update the suspension to air ride? Was it worth it?

I suppose cheap means something different to everyone, to me having a truck like I want for under $20,000 to $30,000 USD is cheap. It is a lot of money but still cheap for the style type and finish I want.

If I decide to go this route which will not be for at least 2-3 years I trust that I could find a few other people looking to import a truck or parts and we can combine shipping to reduce the cost per truck.
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  #34  
Old September 20th, 2013, 01:47 AM
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different persona attached with a Landy, one that I can live with.
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  #35  
Old September 20th, 2013, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post
And Land Rovers don't have a persona attached?

The common denominator in ALL Land Rover enthusiast is that we are weird. Every enthusiast I have ever met is weird, myself included. There is no rational justification for the love that we show for these shitboxes. It is a disease. That is why we are so supportive of one another. That is the line in the sand. Your either in, or you out.

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  #36  
Old September 20th, 2013, 08:41 AM
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Cheap defenders available in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan. Seriously good late model army surplus. Let us know how the negotiations and border crossings go.
Speaking of The Disease seriously, forget Pakistan, they are all army trash Series IIIs, same with Egypt and Sudan. Iraq only has armored Sankey riot control vehicles and a few 130 Ambulances ... I looked for 3 years and only saw one 110 and a series II in private hands. And our pals in Afghanistan? If they are not UK/Turkish Army Snatches, Ranger RSOVs or the Czech WMIKs... they are all Humanitarian agency TD5s and Pumas from Tax-free Fleet Sales out of Gibraltar. Unimportable, every one.

For the adventurous importer the Uber cheap LHD LR heaven is LIBYA ... no, really, besides heaps of Series IIIs, 83-88s 110s and 90s are EVERYWHERE!! Its the biggest secret in the LR world. I am writing an article for LR Monthly about Libyan Rovers of the Revolution.

$500 you can get a S3 109 or 1983 110 stage 1. $1,500-2,000 bucks cash USD can get you a beatup but, low rust great LHD 1988 110 Hicap pickup, 105mm recoiless rifle not included, but you have to get it to Malta or Tunesia with proper "export" documentation ($500) your ownself. LR parts out the yang ... if I can find clean 110 dashboards you will all stop laughing!!


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  #37  
Old September 20th, 2013, 09:25 AM
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From a person who is finishing up a full frame-off restoration completed over 12 months:

1. Completely disassemble the truck.
2. Remove old paint, replace bad body panels, and repaint everything in your color of choice.
3. Refresh all rubber seals and bushings.
4. Hot dip galvanize everything made of steel. EVERYTHING.
5. Reassemble.

That's all that matters. Keep it simple. The only thing your interior needs is seats. In the end, it's still just a Defender and it's going to have dings, dents, and lots of little issues. Just make it clean and rust free.
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  #38  
Old September 23rd, 2013, 06:51 PM
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Have you considered an LR3?
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