Buzzing relay for ARB lockers - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old July 26th, 2012, 08:53 PM
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Buzzing relay for ARB lockers

My lockers are setup on a switch to activate a relay, which sends power to the ARB compressor. However, when I fire up the switch the relay just "buzzes" real loud - but never sends power to the ARB compressor to activate it.

If I jump the relay and send hot to the compressor it works fine.

We tried a new relay in there (borrowed Huffs headlight relay) and still did the same thing.

There's an ignition hot in (which I verified), switch sends power in (also verified), and power goes out of the relay when the switch is thrown (also verified). Just with testlight, not with a meter.

Ideas? What am I missing here? Crappy ground?
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  #2  
Old July 26th, 2012, 09:00 PM
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Did you fix the compressor already? I think your best bet is going to be to simply pull the wiring, switches and relays out and start over again. It is not that much more work and may even end up being less in the end!

Relays and switches are cheap...it's a shame you are not back in VA cause I plan to have some serious wrenching parties in the next couple of weeks!
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Old July 26th, 2012, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefhuf View Post
Did you fix the compressor already? I think your best bet is going to be to simply pull the wiring, switches and relays out and start over again. It is not that much more work and may even end up being less in the end!

Relays and switches are cheap...it's a shame you are not back in VA cause I plan to have some serious wrenching parties in the next couple of weeks!
Figured I'd start with the power issue...pretty sure the air leak at the compressor is just the line is a push fitting and probably needed to be cleaned up and put back in. Even if it's not, I'll tackle that after I get it to fire up.

Left all my damn wire in VA, and if I'm going to rewire it's going to be color-coded and proper gauge. And I ain't dropping another penny on wire! (I honestly think I spent like a grand on wire for the 110 project). I actually plan to put in a similar Blue Sea fuse setup like in the 110, but knowing what that entails I'm putting it off for awhile.

So - any other ideas of where to look or what to check?

------ Follow up post added July 26th, 2012 09:06 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post
Id double check all of the connections.

You should have a separate 'on' for the compressor than for the lockers. even if it is a 3 position switch, the first position should be compressor, the second should be for the locker. If you are trying to do both it might be the issue.

-Jeff
Correct, there's one (separate) switch to fire up the compressor - then two Carling swtiches, one for each of the front and rear lockers.

I seem to be getting juice ok, so I'd *think* connections aren't to blame. But I'll check everything again.
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  #4  
Old July 26th, 2012, 09:37 PM
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Cripes...found it, bad ground (had broken off from the butt connector - sort of shoddy wiring). All the more reason I need to get a Blue Sea in here!

But anyhow, good news is the lockers fired up! Front and rear are working - plan to put them to the test this weekend.

On to question #2. When I fire up the compressor, fills with air all is good. Seems like there is a little slow air leak from the fitting shown below circled in red (right from the hole - if I plug it the air leak stops). Is this normal? Does the ARB compressor self regulate/bleed? It sort of "seems" normal as I'm guessing you'd want the compressor to "decompress", but obviously I don't know shit about lockers so am getting up to speed with stupid questions.

When I engage the locker, compressor fires up to match. When I disengage you hear the little "whoosh" of air released (both front and rear), which I know is good.

So...seems like all is working, just that little air leak from the below which I need to determine if that is normal or not.
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  #5  
Old July 26th, 2012, 09:42 PM
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what you circled is one of the solenoids, not the compressor...so you have a solenoid leaking? this should not happen!

Also, when you say the lockers are working, did you just verify the solenoids are working or did you actually jack the truck up to verify the tires are spinning in the same direction when engaged?
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Old July 26th, 2012, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefhuf View Post
what you circled is one of the solenoids, not the compressor...so you have a solenoid leaking? this should not happen!

Also, when you say the lockers are working, did you just verify the solenoids are working or did you actually jack the truck up to verify the tires are spinning in the same direction when engaged?
So what would cause the solenoid to leak? And I'm gathering that a replacement is in order? Source recommendations? Or can an adjustment be made on the solenoid?

I did not jack up the truck, but plan to do so tomorrow in the daylight. So really by "verified" I meant not at all . Just "sounds" like it's working, but I'll check it tomorrow.

Let me know about the solenoid.
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  #7  
Old July 26th, 2012, 10:54 PM
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The technical name for the solenoid is a 3-way 2 port (aka 3/2) solenoid. There are three types : direct, indirect, and proportional. Based on the configuration of the solenoid and the valve block, it looks like a simple direct acting valve.

There are 3 ports. One is input. The other output. The last is the exhaust. When the solenoid is activated, the input is diverted to the output. When the solenoid is deactivated, the input is closed and the output is diverted to the exhaust.

The red area you have circled is the exhaust.

Read on only if you are crazy. Also note that my observations are based on my experience with industrial automation, which is not my profession:

ARB seems to be using a relabeled AMISCO EVI 7s8 series solenoid. Assuming all ARB did was change out the DIN connector for two flying leads, the actuator should be connected to the base using an M12x0.5 thread. Removal of the operator (the shaft) is done by then removing the knurled nut on top of the solenoid (the thread is m8x0.75). BTW the exhaust port is threaded m5. Once you fix it, it might be worth finding a small sintered filter to thread in there to prevent further leaks.

Theoretically, you should then be able to pull the plunger out of the operator

My guess is that there is some dirt or other junk trapped between the walls of the plunger and the operator causing the valve to leak air when energized.

Here is the link to the AMISCO EVI 7s8 datasheet: http://www.amisco.it/public/evi7s8.pdf
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  #8  
Old July 26th, 2012, 10:58 PM
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Ok let's try it in English.

So I can pull that shit apart and see if I can clean the crap out of the valvey thing?
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  #9  
Old July 26th, 2012, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanwind View Post
Ok let's try it in English.

So I can pull that shit apart and see if I can clean the crap out of the valvey thing?
I love this response so much #awarethaticontributedabsolutelynothing
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  #10  
Old July 26th, 2012, 11:10 PM
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What Ed is saying in his own inimitable way is that the OE solenoid valves are no good, and you should shop for some that are more reliable.
I don't think you can service the valve, just put in a new one.
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  #11  
Old July 26th, 2012, 11:16 PM
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Sorry, tech jargon.

If you remove the knurled nut on top of the black plastic box, you should be able to remove the black plastic box with the wires.

Once you remove the black plastic box, you should see a shaft with wrench flats at the base.

Twist off the shaft using the wrench flats carefully. There is a spring loaded plunger inside the shaft. Remove the plunger from the shaft and clean it out using a qtip and cleaning fluid, rubbing alcohol or the like. Reassemble.

Mind you it has been a good 10 years since I did industrial automation with solenoids and actuators. And I'm guessing because I've never disassembled an Amisco valve. But all these valves are virtually the same.
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  #12  
Old July 27th, 2012, 05:26 AM
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Those solenoids (valves) do wear out, and leak.
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  #13  
Old July 27th, 2012, 07:04 AM
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To follow up on what Ed and Bill were saying, there are a number of threads on Pirate and other forums about replacing the ARB solenoids with a similar but more industrial (and reliable) solenoid valve. The problem most seem to run in to is that most of the industrial solenoids you can source will use 1/8"NPT which is fine on the input side but will give you fits for the output (ARB) side. ARB using 1/8"BPT and their 5mm air line. The air line appears to be proprietary as I have tried sourcing it in several industrial supply and hydraulics shops but none even have a listing for it. Many say you can just load up the 1/8NPT with teflon and it will work ok with the BPT but for my money there has to be a better way! So far, the only "better" way seems to be genuine ARB solenoids.

For the record, I have not tried another solenoid so my ramblings are only based on what I have read...
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  #14  
Old July 27th, 2012, 10:27 AM
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Fortunately, 5mm lines are common in the industrial automation industry.

Back in 1998-1999 when the miniature pneumatics industry was really taking off, there was a plethora of available manufacturers and component sources. One US company that pioneered good, cheap push-in metric fittings and urethane hose (up until then, every manufacturer was using crappy plastic hose) was Legris.

Legris was bought by Parker, fortunately, so now their products are available everywhere (through your local pneumatics distributor):

5mm OD urethane hose in blue or black:

http://www.legris.com/Legris_ecom/Re...esChoisis=2_5@

Legris also supplies all the necessary push-in and barb fittings to use 5mm tube. They also make the same 5mm tube in many other materials:
http://www.legris.com/Legris_ecom/Re...deLangue=en_US
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  #15  
Old July 27th, 2012, 10:42 AM
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Craziness! nice pull Kang! I checked for that tubing at Tipco in Chantilly and at Colliflower in Manassas...what is sad is that Colliflower is the local Parker rep/supply house!
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  #16  
Old July 27th, 2012, 11:15 AM
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Thanks Jeff, never thought I'd have to dig up this part of my brain again lol
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  #17  
Old July 27th, 2012, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
Thanks Jeff, never thought I'd have to dig up this part of my brain again lol
Do you know of any online vendors that sell in less quantity? A 25 meter roll is enough tubing for quite a few trucks!
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  #18  
Old July 27th, 2012, 11:26 AM
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Try
ADVANCED PNEUMATICS CO, INC

9708 ASHLEY DAWN CT
22408 FREDERICKSBURG
VA VIRGINIA
Tel. (540) 898-4511
Fax (540) 898-2067

Tell them you are an individual not with a company. They should have rolls on spools and usually they will throw an arbitrary length in the post for you, priced by the foot. You will pay shipping fees, of course, but 12-15 feet of 5mm urethane hose should coil up into an 8.5x11" padded mailer.
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  #19  
Old July 27th, 2012, 05:07 PM
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Any reason why I can't just swap the valve bodies on the front/rear for this to at least get my rear locker working?
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  #20  
Old July 27th, 2012, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanwind View Post
Any reason why I can't just swap the valve bodies on the front/rear for this to at least get my rear locker working?
Before you do that, just swap the hoses for now...just make sure you use the right switch!
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